Page 5 of 21 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 203
  1. #41

    Please login to view user info
    In your question about Nimmergut, I have no comment as I did not know the man. Klaus Patzwall is a fine researcher so he may have found out more? I remember when I showed an Aircrew badge in cloth many years ago, it was considered a fantasy piece. Klaus Patzwall put one in his book.

    As to the badge you have shown, the pin,hinge and hook construction are not as the known originals but are like that on the Zink wear piece. The price also is that which I would have put on the zink piece.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    In your question about ,Nimmergut, I have no comment as I did not know the man.Klaus Patzwalls is a fine reasercher, so he may have found out more? I remember when I showed an Aircrew badge in cloth many years agp, it was concidered a Fantersey piece. Klaus Patzwalls put one in his book.

    As to the badge you have shown, the pin,hinge and hook construction are not as the known originalsw, but are like that on the Zink wear piece. The price also is that which I would have put on the zink piece.
    Thanks for the speedy reply.
    Jörg Nimmergut is still, the only (as far as i know) vereidigter Sachverständiger für Orden und Ehrenzeichen in Germany. What that means basically, is that should any legal assistance in court be required, or any "Last word" on Medals etc.. for legal reasons, customs etc etc, then his "opinion, estimate or last word" is the Last word So if he says it`s real, then it`s legally, officially real. For whatever thats worth ?
    I dont know any of the two Gentlemen mentioned, i have seen them before, from a distance, but thats about it In saying that, When reading Patzwalls GPB book, even though he slams Nimmergut plenty of times, and reveals many mistakes or errors in his books, even though for this reason alone his book is very uncomfortable to read, and seems to be more a boxing max between giants, everything he says is based on detailed research and fact, so at the end of the day, i guess they Triumph above any reputation or degree.

    •Yes the attachment, well they were replaced, fixed etc, Golden Party badges and others show this sometimes too, so i say best not to judge the authenticity of such an expensive item just on the attachment. In fact, this particular pin plate with crimp in the middle was used before the third reich, during, and even today, so very hard, if not impossible to go by this particular attachment. (could be 1914-2011)
    Now i have to ask:
    Lets leave the pin and plate out of this for a moment, after all, i am certain that these kind of High end items are not judged solely by looking at the attachment, so what other aspects of the badge (the weitze one above) would you be looking at, in order to form some sort of opinion on authenticity ?
    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 3rd September 2011 at 11:39 PM.

  3. #43

    Please login to view user info
    The construction of the reverse of the two types of this badge are not as that you have shown. The badge could NOT have had a replacement pin as shown, as this would not cover the other form of furniture used on these badges. The oak leaves and corner embellishments are not as detailed as the silver and gold produced badge.

    I can only say please see the pictures in my book and I think your questions will be answered

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    The construction of the reverse of the two types of this badge are not as that you have shown. The badge could NOT have had a replacement pin as shown, as this would not cover the other form of furniture used on these badges. The oak leaves and corner embellishments are not as detailed as the silver and gold produced badge.

    I can only say please see the pictures in my book and I think your questions will be answered
    So the Weitze €3500.- is not genuine?

  5. #45

    Please login to view user info
    I could NOT possibly say if it was or was not genuine. One would have to have it in hand to make those judgements. The price €3500, is extremely cheap for such an award. Take for example a Blood Order, €6000.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    I could NOT possibly say if it was or was not genuine. One would have to have it in hand to make those jugments. The price €3500, is extreemly cheap for such an award. Take for example a Blood Order, €6000.
    Why would you need to have it in hand? the pictures are clear enough, and seeing as you have researched and writen about them, and own a few different "100% original" versions, you will certainly be best qualified to determine whether it`s a good piece, or a version that you have never seen before or a version that could not be considered original?
    What extra information could you possibly extract out of this badge if you had it "in hand" ?

  7. #47

    Please login to view user info
    Reaserch requires having the piece to be able to see the individual signatures of the maker. Pictures can be most miss leeding. A shado here or there can make an original look a copy.

    I doubt very much if an art expert would give a definite view on a painting as to its master from a photo.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    Reaserch requires having the piece to be able to see the individual signatures of the maker. Pictures can be most miss leeding. A shado here or there can make an original look a copy.

    I doubt very much if an art expert would give a definite view on a painting as to its master from a photo.
    Would i be correct is assuming the following then, based on what you have just posted:
    Every forum post, where pictures are shown and opinions are given, is null en void. After all, we dont actually have the item in hand, but are only judging by photos. What would be the solution here, to ask Weitze to send you the badge first to inspect before you commit? this translates across the board, and would apply to every dealer and every item offered. After all, they are only offering pictures and expect us to make a judgement based on the description and image. If this is, according to your post, not possible, then what is the solution to this? Could this also be a reason why we are so swamped with fantasy and fakes, as we dont get to inspect the item, but have to rely on forums, opinions, pictures in reference books and then make a choice.

    What would the purpose be then of reference books, even yours :001_huh: as they also only contain pictures accompanied by a description and opinion.
    Or maybe this only applies to these specific HJ leafy badges? or expensive items...and all other smaller items are easily Authenticated by images and comparison only? What would the purpose be then of writing any Reference book, if at the end of the day we really need to have the item in hand in order to say for sure?

    Do you have every "form" and version of the Leafy HJ gold badge in your collection then? or have you held every form/version? after all, you would need to, seeing as you have writen about them, determining what is good and what versions there were, therefore you would have needed to physically view and hold every version known in order to actually write about them? Therefore the next question, This €3500.- weitze badge, have you seen this version before? have you held one, inspected one, and what opinion did you reach? (if you have not held one before, then how do you know it is not just another Original version, in Buntmetal. After all, we have Solid Gold, goldwashed messing and Zinc so far.... why not buntmetal as well like this one?

  9. #49

    Please login to view user info
    These pieces are very rare, they are jeweller made. I have inspected the pieces in the book, owning 3. Your summation that the badge you have shown could be another version. I can not say that this is not the case. The main point is that there are 2 design types. The first, I have only seen once and is in real gold. This design is totally different in the oak leaves. The second type is found in real gold, real silver and zink. This is the type shown in the thread. In response to your question, "This €3500.- weitze badge, have you seen this version before?" the short answer is NO.

    In response to your first line of thought, pictures on forums can be misleading. Reference books can also, I have made some in the past. However all interchange is a help to collectors. BUT HOLDING THE PIECE IN HAND is the best way. Compare weights, measurements and even smell. If you write then do your research and write from what you have. You can revisit the piece time and time again. I hope this clarifies the position for you and is helpful.

  10. #50

    Please login to view user info
    I guess the only way to tell if is real or not is if you took it off the boy's dead body! It might be foolish but I seem to trust experts and reference books thats about all we have Trust has to come in some where or we would never own anything so where is the fun in collecting

Page 5 of 21 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

HJ-Research, the Hitler Youth Militaria Collector Forum
Copyright © HJ-Research.com 2009 -
Web Hosting by Vidahost "Hosting for Life"