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  1. #81
    • Or maybe you can give us an example of a very High Class award, that is known to have been manufactured in Solid Gold, Silver and then Zinc?
    Can you? this would go some way in establishing a parallel ...



  2. #82

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    The german order was produced in tomback, and latterly in silver.

  3. #83

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    The same order but produced in silver
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    Last edited by WARLORD; 15th September 2011 at 03:26 PM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    The german order was produced in tomback, and latterly in silver.
    Can you prove this? can you show us one period document to support this claim? One period mention ? anything other than your opinion. (I don't mean what you have seen, or held in hand, i mean reliable, period proof)

  5. #85

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    I own these awards and one can see the material they are made from. I contacted Deumer and Mr Cosens said the first pieces were produced in tomback and afterwards in silver.

  6. #86
    Oh dear, you seem to have misunderstood.
    Can you prove this? can you show us one period document to support this claim? One period mention ? anything other than your opinion.
    Not what you have, not what your friends think, not what anyone else thinks, PERIOD PROOF. Anything else is not debatable. If you cant back up what you presume, i suggest you stop wasting Thread space.


  7. #87

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    I think you are quite correct. I should not wast Forum page space. Thus I must leave this in your very capable hands. I am sure you will be able to make the right judgements.

  8. #88
    Here is a scan of badge N° 180, supposedly a silver HJ Leafy, with 835 Silberstempel. This is the badge that i said was not silver, and looked like whatever it was coated with was flaking off.
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  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    THE FIRST POINT, WHY STAMPED .835, WELL THIS WAS ONE OF THE SIVER GRADE MARKS USED IN GERMANY AT THE TIME. You will find that it was commonly used. So the piece is made of silver grade .835. IT IS NOT SILVER PLATED. It is mercury guilded.
    So you are saying, this badge was struck in silver, stamped 835 to denote the planchet being 835/1000 parts german silber, and then Fire-gilded after ? like the Golden Party Badges? (Why? to hide the silver, or give it a protective coating to stop the silver getting scratched?) and this 835 stamp, as you say, was quote: "commonly used" ? What do you mean here ? commonly used on El Cheap-O jewelry, or commonly used on Extremely High class awards ?

    • Can you to show us one example of a very high class award, of the same status as the HJ Golden badge with oak leaves, that is Cast/Struck in 835 silver, and then either Fire gilded or gold plated.

    • Do you not think that now, in 2010 it is unacceptable to Publish a "collectors Guide" to Nazi awards book, and fill it with your opinion, backed up, assisted and based on NOTHING, except your opinion, a few items you have in your collection and a few chats you had with people.
    I contacted Deumer and Mr Cosens said the first pieces were produced in tomback and afterwards in silver

    • Last question, i have noticed that there are very few Credits in your book, can i therefore presume that you own most of the material published, badges, awards and photos?

    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    The german order was produced in tomback, and latterly in silver.
    You are surely aware, that you are talking about an Award, that was awarded a total of six times to the Dead, and 4 times to the living, and you expect us to believe that it was, as you say, produced in Tombak, and Later in Silver? Now the copies that you own, or the various versions that you have had made up for yourself, or found, bought, borrowed or aquired are of little interest here when it comes to backing this statement up.. i could have a good copy made in Bio-friendly Lead and spraypaint it gold, that would NOT give me the right to "claim" that it was made in lead though, would it.
    The irritating thing here, (getting back to the HJ oak leafy badges) is that you have Zero evidence of the award actually being made in anything other than Solid gold, yet you chose to publish a work on it, describing version A, version B, version C..... what gives you this right? what Period evidence have you based this on? what "meat" can you provide to back up these various versions, other than what you have in your hands, or seen, or presume to assume.

    The pictures below show an RZM marked golden HJ Oak leaf variant. Taking into consideration that you published a Silver Golden Party badge with RZM mark as Original, writing that M1/120 was a "known maker" of this award, .. you obviously think that the RZM had something to do with these High NSDAP awards, and would therefore not find the RZM logo on these HJ badges as anything "abnormal" ? or not ? it could be just another variant, couldn't it ?





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    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 16th September 2011 at 09:10 AM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    I think you are quite correct. I should not wast Forum page space. Thus I must leave this in your very capable hands. I am sure you will be able to make the right judgements.
    I really don't like back-handed comments like this. Anyone who writes one of these collector reference books has a responsibility to his fellow collectors and anyone else that reads/buys the book. I agree with Jo that a book being published now should represent the absolute cutting-edge of current research. During this discussion you have not offered one single piece of researchable proof in support of the ostensibly illogical existence of multiple 'variants' of such a rare award and now you bow out of the discussion with that cynical throwaway? Poor show Mr Ailsby, very poor show.

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