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  1. #21

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    Hitler Youth Dagger

    Well I think it has been settled ,a good looking fake.I still want to here from Ade then it really be final.

  2. #22

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    Its sharp!

    Its a beautyful dagger I hope its the real thing! I hope you didn't pay to much for it!

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron View Post
    operaman, as far as I'm aware no accepted examples of the so-called 'Japanese delegation' daggers have ever surfaced. If I remember correctly, Tom Johnson featured a similar dagger with provenance that he featured in one of his volumes, however the one he showed had the correct Horster configuration with the correct tapered grip and right facing locket eagle. He described this example as a prototype, and as far as I know is the only 'accepted' version to surface, which is quite different to this one shown.

    The example shown in this thread conforms to known reproductions. The most obvious red flags are the angular grip and the full-frontal eagle. This in itself is condemning as the manufacturers of these copied did not execut the HJ Eagle emblem correctly. If you compare the locket eagles on both manufacturers of these daggers, namely Horster and Eickhorn, you will note the correct use of the HJ emblem, different to the example shown here.

    This repro type also features in Frederick Stephens Reproduction? Recognition! the key reference work in reproduction TR edged weapons. Also, the dedication on the blade makes little sense in the context of an honour dagger 'For loyal service in the German Youth'

    I have personally encountered two variants of this reproduction, the one I believe was German made which had a magnetic scabbard, the Spanish copy had a non-ferrous scabbard which was die cast.

    If these were period and original they would very rare and certainly not encountered on on-line auctions etc., not to mention they are fairly plentiful...

    Red
    operaman, I agree with you ... Gd Forum say it is false and
    provide no proof of this ... I have told the names of
    Angoli writers and say they did not exist .... I ask and no evidence;
    to be a collector of Spain has to be a copy ... ... evidence;
    And if you read the link of being Network. will see that they give no on page
    nor in private message (which can not read
    Counterfeiters) .. A greeting and I hope evidence; ...
    Toni

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron View Post
    Being new to this Forum, I hate being the bearer of bad news but this particular HJ Leader 'variant' is a well know reproduction. These were early Spanish made repros and were fairly well made. There are several errors including the spead-eagled bird on the locket and the wrong ferrule style for a Horster manufactured dagger, angular grip, not to mention the one-piece scabbard. These come up sometimes on sites like eBay and Gunbroker etc. and are often offered as period, unfortunately they are well know copies. There were several version available for these copies including a guilded variation, also offered today as some rare kind on honour version. Here is a couple of images of accepted fakes.

    IMHO, sorry, Red
    Please if you can put better photos ... as what you show here such as the eagle does not have the hojo ... no manufacturer is brand
    greetings
    Toni

  5. #25

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    Hi Toni, Sorry to be commenting negatively on you dagger and I'm sincerely sorry but I believe your dagger to be a copy, as does everyone who commented on GDC. I have come across several of these and have owned 2 myself over the years to study. I cannot see the locket eagle clearly on your dagger Pics, but if it is the type I've shown your dagger is a well known reproduction I'm afraid.

    Below are the only 2 makers, Horster & Eickhorn and examples of the eagles used by these firms. Most collectors can identify the maker just looking at the eagle, and you will notice they are quite distinct, the large head size is an instant marker for a Horster.

    The last 3 images are examples of some of the many fake eagles, if yours is similar to these 3 there is no doubt at all that yours is unfortunately a fake. You will also see that fake 1 and 2 are both the "rare" Japanese" HJ dagger. I see no possibility at all that the dagger you show is period, but of course its JMHO...

    Red
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #26

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    HJ Dagger

    Red Baron,one can tell immediately what you are talking about .the difference between the Eickhorn and the Horster compared to the others is dramatic.We are all lucky to have a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips to help identify fraud.

  7. #27

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    A horrible fantasy copy IMO . I 've posted a real Eickhorn here some time ago, toghter with its ultra rare leather hangers. Originals have a very distincive look, the silvering on the aluminium base metal is very characteristic in it's appereance.

    Some of the earlier versions have non standard features like a pommel that is screwed on just like an army dagger. The M1/36 is the easiest to find if you wanne pay a huge amount of money. The Eickorn's are less easy to locate. They don't grow on trees if you know what I mean!

    Regards, Wim

  8. #28

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    This very good dagaes copies but is not original .. the Japanese motto confirms it ... but it is a very good copy that has his(her,your) value...

  9. #29

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    for service to the German youth,man it had me,../scary,i need to hit the books on edged weapons.if i had this in its origional form,it would be the holy grail of HJ items for me.& i would probably stop collecting,...well for a while.ha

    si

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