Seeberufsfachschule Kammer - help with insignia

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Paul Ayerst

Paul Ayerst

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can anyone confirm if this arm patch is related to the marine hj please

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I don't know if this badge was used by Marine-HJ.

Weitze has a (Lightblue and white) Marine-HJ cap band with the text Seeberufsvorschule. https://www.weitze.net/detail/43/Marine_HJ_Muetzenband_Seeberufsfachschule__19043.html

Found the photo of a German navy sailor, on the german forum Das größte deutschsprachige Militaria Forum

Text on arm badge:
See-
berufsfachschule
Essen-Werden


In 1942 the German navy renamed the Unteroffiziersvorschulen to Seeberufsfacschulen

../henrik

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I believe it is for the German Navy NCO ( Petty officer ) pre school for regular Kriegsmarine .
 
The boys [Jungmatrose] for the first class of 1941 had to be born between 1 April 1926 and 31 March 1927.

The education lasted 3 years. Then they were appointed Soldat [common soldier] in the Kriegsmarine. After a year [3 month onshore, 9 month at sea] they were appointed Gefreiter [corporal].

../henrik
 
PAUL AYERST said:
so HENRIK in your opinion is this patch related to marine HJ or regular KM ?

paul
Click to expand...

For now, I would say KM related.

But we need the opinion from somone who knows the uniform regulations for these schools. Or somone with a photo of a Marine-HJ uniform with the badge.

Like other TR schools at this time, the boys were probably organized by HJ.

Anyway it's a rare badge.

../henrik

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Seeberufsfachschule Kammer

Gents,

I'm unbelieveable happy to contribute something to the Forum eventually. Pls see below a photograph with the badge in wear. The closest translation for Kammer, BTW, is "headoffice". Of course, Kammer can be also the name of the locn the school was situated, but there's no such town to my knowledge.
However, as cemifor wrote the boys for the first class in 1941 had to be born in the forementioned time period. Everybody in this age belonged to the HJ and to my understanding these schools were under the umbrella of the HJ, well knowing that the boys on the photos I have available don't wear HJ uniform. At the end, and this was important for me as Marine-HJ cap tally collector, they wear a MHJ cap tally.
Again, it would be good to get the uniform regulations to know.

@ Henrik aka cemifor: where you've got the info from that the KM renamed the Unteroffiziersvorschule to Seeberufsfachschule in 1942? I was led to believe that the KM Marineunteroffizier = Vorschule tallies just came up from 1941 onwards.
Henrik, can you give me the link to the MFF thread where the Essen-Werden photo was posted?

So i.m.o. the badge is MHJ, but this has to be still subject of discussion of course. Very rare anyway. The badges of the individual schools pop up now and then, but the Kammer I have never seen for sale anyway!

Rgds

Daniel

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Sorry for opening this old thread, but I have a large interest in Seeberufsfachschulen. Can someone point me to a more details, somewhere? I can see that there is a book about those schools. Anyone knows if its OK?
 
Good day Gents,

according to vol 1 of Hans Wilhelm Hoffmann's book "Der Matrose als Ausbildungsberuf" ('The seaman as apprenticeship'), the DAF was in charge of the Seeberufsfachschulen. The schools had the sole purpose to teach pupils the trade of a merchant navy seaman (not officers!). However, during wartime the graduates of these schools had to do a 3 years service time on auxillery warships.
I must admit I do not have this book and the learnings what I gathered so far were news to me as well.

So now: why the mis-conception the items of the "Seeberufsfachschule" are related to the HJ? The pupils, first of all, were under age and were still members of the HJ. And for the duration of school attendance it is quite possible they did also their duties in the local HJ units. However, we have to consider the fact that on their normal school uniforms they did not wear any insignia which can be attributed to the HJ. Don't ask me why the colours of cap tallies were chosen to be identical to the Marine-HJ.

Rgds

Daniel
 
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