1. 1932 NS Reichsjugendtag Potsdam badge by Aurich

Forums New posts
Carlyle said:
1. 1932 NS Reichsjugendtag Potsdam badge
I know many of these are already here but not mine. So here it is.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
Click to expand...
I’m a little worried about my badge after reading all the posts available to me in this group. The makers mark on the bottom of the badge is nothing like the others.
I’d like opinions on the authenticity of it. Thank you.
 
There are some decent threads on these badges. Here are two of them and they show how confusing the issue of the silver Potsdam badge is:

Let's talk about the 1932 1 NS Reichsjugendtag Potsdam badges | Tinnies/Day badges

This is a thread dedicated to getting to bottom of the story about the 1. Reichsjugendtag 1932 Potsdam badge. It is part of our series on 'Annoying HJ collectibles' Add your links to other discussions, evidence, pictures - anything that will help in building a compendium of...
www.hj-research.com www.hj-research.com

Was the Potsdam badge re-issued after 1932? | All other metal insignia and awards less tinnies a

Hi All, Well, my question would better be, was the silver Potsdam 1932 Abzeichen kept in production? For example, in case of loss of damage, a person could buy a replacement (Ersatz?) My question comes because I have seen in the Mitteilungsblatt der Reichszeugsmeisterei, Ausgabe 2, page two...
www.hj-research.com www.hj-research.com

The problem with this badge is that it remained in production for years after the event. Whether Aurich was a legitimate maker of these badges is, to me at least, an unknown. Perhaps the better way forward is to look at how your particular example was made. The edges should show shear marks for example.
 
Sorry…. I meant Gary. I did check the sides of my Potsdam and it appears rough but maybe smoothed a little from wear. I’ll post pics. Thanks again.
 
Garry said:
There are some decent threads on these badges. Here are two of them and they show how confusing the issue of the silver Potsdam badge is:

Let's talk about the 1932 1 NS Reichsjugendtag Potsdam badges | Tinnies/Day badges

This is a thread dedicated to getting to bottom of the story about the 1. Reichsjugendtag 1932 Potsdam badge. It is part of our series on 'Annoying HJ collectibles' Add your links to other discussions, evidence, pictures - anything that will help in building a compendium of...
www.hj-research.com www.hj-research.com

Was the Potsdam badge re-issued after 1932? | All other metal insignia and awards less tinnies a

Hi All, Well, my question would better be, was the silver Potsdam 1932 Abzeichen kept in production? For example, in case of loss of damage, a person could buy a replacement (Ersatz?) My question comes because I have seen in the Mitteilungsblatt der Reichszeugsmeisterei, Ausgabe 2, page two...
www.hj-research.com www.hj-research.com

The problem with this badge is that it remained in production for years after the event. Whether Aurich was a legitimate maker of these badges is, to me at least, an unknown. Perhaps the better way forward is to look at how your particular example was made. The edges should show shear marks for example.
Click to expand...
Would you call this shear marks?
Garry said:
There are some decent threads on these badges. Here are two of them and they show how confusing the issue of the silver Potsdam badge is:

Let's talk about the 1932 1 NS Reichsjugendtag Potsdam badges | Tinnies/Day badges

This is a thread dedicated to getting to bottom of the story about the 1. Reichsjugendtag 1932 Potsdam badge. It is part of our series on 'Annoying HJ collectibles' Add your links to other discussions, evidence, pictures - anything that will help in building a compendium of...
www.hj-research.com www.hj-research.com

Was the Potsdam badge re-issued after 1932? | All other metal insignia and awards less tinnies a

Hi All, Well, my question would better be, was the silver Potsdam 1932 Abzeichen kept in production? For example, in case of loss of damage, a person could buy a replacement (Ersatz?) My question comes because I have seen in the Mitteilungsblatt der Reichszeugsmeisterei, Ausgabe 2, page two...
www.hj-research.com www.hj-research.com

The problem with this badge is that it remained in production for years after the event. Whether Aurich was a legitimate maker of these badges is, to me at least, an unknown. Perhaps the better way forward is to look at how your particular example was made. The edges should show shear marks for example.
Click to expand...
would you call the roughness on the edges shear ware? Photos below.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Going off the pics I would say that this one is not good. I don't see any evidence of shear marks.
 
crack said:
Going off the pics I would say that this one is not good. I don't see any evidence of shear marks.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Did you enlarge the photos to the max by pinching them? Are all of those badges sheared? Do you know where I can view this so I know what it looks like. Sorry for troubling you with all these questions.
I purchased the piece from the collectors guild about a year ago. Should I contact them?
 
I agree with Crack. Unfortunately I see no shear marks either. I just tried to get good pics of the shear marks on my Potsdam badge but failed. This is the best I can do and I had to totally mess with contrast/colour to even get this but what to look for are the vertical shear lines on the edge. In hand with a magnifying glass the shear marks are clear. The one sold to you has a sort of "bubbly" indistinct edge as if it had been cast.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Carlyle said:
Thank you. Did you enlarge the photos to the max by pinching them? Are all of those badges sheared? Do you know where I can view this so I know what it looks like. Sorry for troubling you with all these questions.
I purchased the piece from the collectors guild about a year ago. Should I contact them?
Click to expand...

Yes, made using dies originally so the edges should tell the story of the excess metal being chomped off.
 
Garry said:
I agree with Crack. Unfortunately I see no shear marks either. I just tried to get good pics of the shear marks on my Potsdam badge but failed. This is the best I can do and I had to totally mess with contrast/colour to even get this but what to look for are the vertical shear lines on the edge. In hand with a magnifying glass the shear marks are clear. The one sold to you has a sort of "bubbly" indistinct edge as if it had been cast.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
Click to expand...
I got this photo off of an internet site. Is this what you mean?
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Carlyle said:
Thanks, I have contacted the collector’s guild and requested to return the piece for store credit as that is the only type of refund they do. I’ll keep everyone updated on how that goes.
Click to expand...
I received the following response from Collectors Guild this morning. I am totally impresses!
Hi Joe
Thank you for the e-mail.
There is absolutely no problem with returning the badge, my only concern is that you are 100% happy with every single item that comes from us.
I personally handle issues with items, as I am the one who inspects them all when they first arrive.
Thank you for pointing out any potential errors.. I will double check all when the item arrives back.
Also anytime you notice a listing on our site that you don't think is correct, please always e-mail me.
When returning the item, please following the below shipping instructions.
On the customs form please write
"Antique Badge over 50 Years Old, Value $90" Insure the package for $90
Just send by the cheapest method as it a low dollar item
Ship to

Collector's Guild

Box 1255 St "A"

Fredericton NB

Canada E3B 5C8



I’ll email you as soon as it land.



Thanks for bringing it to my attention.



When your time permits



All the best!



Warmest Regards



Peter Whamond
 
The only legitimate manufacturer of the Potsdam badge is Ferdinand Hoffstätter. That includes the early badges given at the time of the event as well as the later period examples, replacements, etc. All of the Aurich marked badges are modern (usually cast) reproductions. Jo Rivett (a member here) has done exhaustive research on this very issue, some of which is detailed on his web site. I think there will be additional information regarding these badges in a forthcoming reference work by Jo as well. You did the right thing by returning ......
 
kriegsmodell said:
The only legitimate manufacturer of the Potsdam badge is Ferdinand Hoffstätter. That includes the early badges given at the time of the event as well as the later period examples, replacements, etc. All of the Aurich marked badges are modern (usually cast) reproductions. Jo Rivett (a member here) has done exhaustive research on this very issue, some of which is detailed on his web site. I think there will be additional information regarding these badges in a forthcoming reference work by Jo as well. You did the right thing by returning ......
Click to expand...
Thank you. Good to know. I am currently looking for a replacement for my Potsdam. There are a number of them out there. I will post photos before my next purchase. If anyone knows the where abouts of a reasonably priced one I’d like to gear about it. $175 euros is about as cheap as I have seen for one I like.
 
kriegsmodell said:
The only legitimate manufacturer of the Potsdam badge is Ferdinand Hoffstätter. That includes the early badges given at the time of the event as well as the later period examples, replacements, etc. All of the Aurich marked badges are modern (usually cast) reproductions. Jo Rivett (a member here) has done exhaustive research on this very issue, some of which is detailed on his web site. I think there will be additional information regarding these badges in a forthcoming reference work by Jo as well. You did the right thing by returning ......
Click to expand...
Jo Rivett didn't know Jack about these badges or any other Hitler Youth items until he joined this forum. We were way ahead of him on the history of the Potsdam badge before he even found a home here (which he incidentally left a long time ago because he didn't want to "do things for free any more"). Now, I would tend to agree with you but can you prove that Hoffstätter was the only maker of this badge for the whole period where it was available? Do you know for how long after 1932 the badge was still an honour badge and could still be purchased?
 
Garry said:
Jo Rivett didn't know Jack about these badges or any other Hitler Youth items until he joined this forum. We were way ahead of him on the history of the Potsdam badge before he even found a home here (which he incidentally left a long time ago because he didn't want to "do things for free any more"). Now, I would tend to agree with you but can you prove that Hoffstätter was the only maker of this badge for the whole period where it was available? Do you know for how long after 1932 the badge was still an honour badge and could still be purchased?
Click to expand...

Interesting response.

Can I prove that Ferdinand Hoffstätter was the only maker ......? No, I can not.

Do I know how long after 1932 it was still an honor badge and could be purchased ......? No, I do not. Other than it was available for many years.

Have I ever seen an Aurich marked badge that I felt was original including the example from the OP ......? No.

Do I consider Jo Rivett to be a subject matter expert on small badges ......? Yes.
 
Well, not really "interesting". You made a bold statement about Hoffstätter being the sole maker from beginning to end and I commented on that initially. As I said, I tend to agree with you but I haven't seen any evidence that would unequivocally support your very confident statement.

The answers to the other questions are on the forum. The point I was making by asking what I did was to see whether you would search the forum to see if the information is here. You didn't and of course you don't have to but post #3 towards the top of this thread would have helped. I suppose what I'm saying is this: although you clearly admire Jo, he doesn't have a monopoly on finding verifiable and reliable period sources and extracting the useful parts in order to increase understanding of a particular item, event etc. He is, of course, very good with small badges and I was a little harsh in saying that he didn't know anything about youth items back in 2011 or so when he joined this forum. Of course he did but he was not a "HJ" guy and in any case, his emphasis was badge construction, fakes, makers etc. Whatever, he made some great contributions in his area of expertise on this forum during his time here but I don't personally think that there is anything truly new to learn about the Potsdam badge (<--I'll get that page finished at some point..) in terms of its history.

What would be useful is if someone were to make an exhaustive study of the fakes, the variations in the MMs etc and also to clear up the issue of whether Hoffstätter really was the sole maker. What would be very useful too is if someone could study the good badges and establish a chronology i.e. which are the early badges and which are from later production runs.
 
Garry said:
Well, not really "interesting". You made a bold statement about Hoffstätter being the sole maker from beginning to end and I commented on that initially. As I said, I tend to agree with you but I haven't seen any evidence that would unequivocally support your very confident statement.

The answers to the other questions are on the forum. The point I was making by asking what I did was to see whether you would search the forum to see if the information is here. You didn't and of course you don't have to but post #3 towards the top of this thread would have helped. I suppose what I'm saying is this: although you clearly admire Jo, he doesn't have a monopoly on finding verifiable and reliable period sources and extracting the useful parts in order to increase understanding of a particular item, event etc. He is, of course, very good with small badges and I was a little harsh in saying that he didn't know anything about youth items back in 2011 or so when he joined this forum. Of course he did but he was not a "HJ" guy and in any case, his emphasis was badge construction, fakes, makers etc. Whatever, he made some great contributions in his area of expertise on this forum during his time here but I don't personally think that there is anything truly new to learn about the Potsdam badge (<--I'll get that page finished at some point..) in terms of its history.

What would be useful is if someone were to make an exhaustive study of the fakes, the variations in the MMs etc and also to clear up the issue of whether Hoffstätter really was the sole maker. What would be very useful too is if someone could study the good badges and establish a chronology i.e. which are the early badges and which are from later production runs.
Click to expand...

"Interesting" is apparently in the eye of the beholder.

As far as your "point" of testing me to see if I would respond with detailed answers to your very public "schooling" of myself ....... I suppose this was to ascertain if would research the issue and respond with answers thereby perhaps proving that I'm an "HJ" Guy. You Sir have no idea what I have read or researched. I suppose as Moderator you cam see what I have recently viewed here but this means little as I have been a member for many years including a paying "Gold Member" during that period. I can assure you that I have read the numerous threads here on the forum and studied the badges including several examples in my personal collection and content from other venues as well. I don't need a lecture especially when you are essentially agreeing with my assertions while belittling me at the same time.

In the matter of Jo Rivett ..... I don't really understand the ire directed toward him. What difference does it make if he was an "HJ" Guy or not? Or when/if he became one? His contributions to this forum are evident and speak for themselves in the numerous threads (many of them sticky) that he has authored here. And there is good information on Jo's web site and forum regarding the Potsdam badges including several of the issues mentioned above as being worthy of further research. Enough said regarding this as I have no desire to serve as his internet defender. It seems I'm kept fairly busy defending myself ......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top