Bann 285 Unterbann VI

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Osvald21

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Hi,
I´m wondering if someone can help me out with this shoulderboard for Kameradschaftsführer, Bann 285 (Ort:Unterweser, Gebiet: Nordsee, Obergebiet: Nord). As shown it has Unterbann number 6 below the Bann number. According to the information I´ve found the Unterbann numbers were ranging between 1 and 5. This makes me confused.

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If something is wrong (in my opinion). I do not know, as this strap has white piping and green embroidery.
285 should have V instead of VI (see my book page 209).

I know VI and VII have existed for a period of time, due to the growth of the organization.
I have not much informstion about this. Maybe Garry can help us out here!
 
Yes, the RJF gave permission in Jan 1934 for the Banne to create new Unterbanne above the regulation number of V because of the rapid growth of the HJ resulting from thousands of new members and the swallowing up of previously autonomous youth organisations. The RJF order that Wim mentions from 24.1.1934 doesn't actually give a limit on the number of Unterbanne that a Bann could raise (with the prior permission of RJF Abteilung I) but like Wim I've never personally read about or seen any higher number than VII in any Bann.

With the above in mind the Unterbann number on your strap could theoretically have existed. I tried to find period proof that it existed within Bann 285 but unfortunately I have nothing in the way of Gebiets- or Bannbefehle from Gebiet Nordsee prior to 1936. However, and as Wim says, that white cord should be green. This is a worry.
 
The piping was not white from the beginning. It is not easy to see here, but on the back the piping has a faint blue tone. I think the green color has faded over time. The board is definitely period.
 
Garry said:
Yes, the RJF gave permission in Jan 1934 for the Banne to create new Unterbanne above the regulation number of V because of the rapid growth of the HJ resulting from thousands of new members and the swallowing up of previously autonomous youth organisations. The RJF order that Wim mentions from 24.1.1934 doesn't actually give a limit on the number of Unterbanne that a Bann could raise (with the prior permission of RJF Abteilung I) but like Wim I've never personally read about or seen any higher number than VII in any Bann.

With the above in mind the Unterbann number on your strap could theoretically have existed. I tried to find period proof that it existed within Bann 285 but unfortunately I have nothing in the way of Gebiets- or Bannbefehle from Gebiet Nordsee prior to 1936. However, and as Wim says, that white cord should be green. This is a worry.
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Hello Garry,

it is not a worry for HJ shoulder straps collectors. We are well aware of the problem. It is not an irregularity and certainly not fake. . No one to date has been able to explain to me why they were designed that way. It is very important because I would not like that the doubt settles in the minds.

Best Regards
Eric
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Hi Eric. No, that's fair enough. My main thrust was really the organisational side of things.
 
Garry said:
Hi Eric. No, that's fair enough. My main thrust was really the organisational side of things.
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Hi Garry,
I now understand your explanations better and I was afraid that we were headed for a bad way. :yo:
 
:) Hi Eric,

Well, the cord should be regulation green as you know and I will always point out what an item "should" look like where I have the relevant orders etc but if collectors of straps, particularly you, say that a strap like the one in post #1 is okay in that configuration then I'm always happy to defer to your experience. My aim is never to destroy an item just because it has a characteristic not mentioned in a period source.
 
Hello! This issue with discolored cords is worth studying.

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Garry said:
Yes, the RJF gave permission in Jan 1934 for the Banne to create new Unterbanne above the regulation number of V because of the rapid growth of the HJ resulting from thousands of new members and the swallowing up of previously autonomous youth organisations. The RJF order that Wim mentions from 24.1.1934 doesn't actually give a limit on the number of Unterbanne that a Bann could raise (with the prior permission of RJF Abteilung I) but like Wim I've never personally read about or seen any higher number than VII in any Bann.
Click to expand...

Since my post #3 above I have indeed come across period references to Unterbanne with numbers higher than VII (the highest previously known to me). A period source dated 4.5.1934, for example, shows that Bann 91 (also Gebiet 7 Nordsee as with Bann 285) had an Unterbann IX/91 (see here for the reference). This Unterbann, along with Unterbann VIII/91, were raised in March 1934 due to a territorial change affecting Unterbann III/91.
 
from an old topic

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