DJ Early and Bevo Runes and others

[mkholst]

Hi Garry,

I thought I had it all figured out, but now I’m a bit confused by your list of colors.
Where does the badge I pictured in post 8 (red on green) fit in?

Michael

PS - thanks for the scans

 

[Garry]

Hi Garry,

I thought I had it all figured out, but now I’m a bit confused by your list of colors.
Where does the badge I pictured in post 8 (red on green) fit in?

Michael

PS - thanks for the scans

Yes, that combination of red/green is not shown among the colour combinations. It's also not a Länderfarbe (used by the HJ for the Kameradschaftführer lanyard in 1933 for example). Not sure what to make of the patch but if it is of period construction etc then there will have been a reason for the colours that isn't covered by the sources we have.

Edit to add more on who actually wore these sleeve runes in the Gau colours:

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This all changed a few months later of course when the uniforms were all standardised and the Oberbann colours were introduced.

 

[Garry]

Just going back to odd colour combinations... In August 1933. after the new Oberbann DJ sleeve patches had been introduced, the Jungbannführer of Harburg-Wilhelmsburg ordered that the changeover to the new patches would begin after the Reichsparteitag in Nürnberg. For an upcoming Gebietstreffen he stated that all Jungvolk Pimpfe were to wear the Siegrune patch "in the old colours". He says that the old colours were yellow rune on black. This is an SA combination which would correspond to Hannover-Süd or Hannover-Ost because none of the later HJ-Gruppen colours were yellow on black. Harburg-Wilhelmsburg is just south of Hamburg though so none of this applies... I don't think for a second that Jungbannführer was confused about the colours but I certainly am....

 

[mkholst]

Hi Garry

I'm still confused .

In post 16 you wrote;

“Hi Michael,
You are correct on the colours used for the very early rune patches. Here's an excerpt from the book "Aufbau Abzeichen NSDAP" from 1933. It contains a mixture of information from 1932 and 33 as follows:

"...am linken Oberarm wird das Jungvolkabzeichen in den Gauspiegelfarben der SA getragen". the patch shown is a roundel with Sigrune, no tan backing.”

So I thought everything was as it should be, but then post 20 appeared with a completely different color overview—where did that color overview come from?

Michael

 

[Garry]

It is confusing Do you have Wim's book? He lists the Gaufarben (SA) and the HJ-Gruppe colours that came after them. The problem is that it is unclear for the Jungvolk whether "Red/white" means "red rune on white" or "white rune on red". I would think that the rune colour would be the same as the colour used for the numbers on the SA collar patches. However, I can't be sure. I will post a definitive list of the colours as soon as I get my hands on the SA orders that show them and the colours for the HJ-Gruppen. With a little luck that should happen next week some time.

 

[mkholst]

Hi Garry,

I’m eagerly awaiting your next post.

I have Wim’s handbook—on which page are the colors listed?

In the meantime, I’ve looked at the early badges pictured on our forum—and almost all of them match the SA colors 100%: disc color = collar patch color; Siegrune color = number color.

I’ve used the abbreviations from my summary in post 15. After this review, I am very certain that the previously mentioned statement is correct:
"..am linken Oberarm wird das Jungvolkabzeichen in den Gauspiegelfarben der SA getragen"

Michael

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FR

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GB

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HD

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HNS

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HO

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NM

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[Garry]

Hi Garry,

I’m eagerly awaiting your next post.

I have Wim’s handbook—on which page are the colors listed?

In the meantime, I’ve looked at the early badges pictured on our forum—and almost all of them match the SA colors 100%: disc color = collar patch color; Siegrune color = number color.

I’ve used the abbreviations from my summary in post 15. After this review, I am very certain that the previously mentioned statement is correct:
"..am linken Oberarm wird das Jungvolkabzeichen in den Gauspiegelfarben der SA getragen"

Michael

It starts on p634 Michael. Yes, that statement is definitely true. I also think you're right about which colour was for the rune and which for the base patch. Putting all of the various colours into a nice little table will be very useful. 1931/32 for the SA colours, 1932/33 for the HJ-Gruppen colours and then the Oberbann colours that replaced everything.

 

[Garry]

Working on this currently Michael. I haven't finished entering the data but you can test it out:

DJ Sleeve patch and rune colours

Identify early DJ sleeve patches from the era 1931-1933 (SA command and later the HJ-Gruppen)

www.hj-research.com

Have I entered the colours of the rune and patch correctly so far? Use the script and enter yellow in the rune colour field for example and it will spit out all areas that used it and when. If you're happy I will go ahead and enter the rest of the data.