DJ Shoulderstrap Roman ''I"

Forums New posts
CasLunter

CasLunter

Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
59
Thanks Received
22
Location
Nijmegen
I recently bought these two shoulder straps. I know the A12 is described as unknown with possible Ausland connection. But the ''I'' has me clueless, I have never seen this strap before in any literature or post. Maybe somebody can give me some inside on this piece.

Thank you,
Cas

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Hi
I know the "A12" but the "I" is something new !!
Very interesting. I hope someone will provide an answer
 
Yes, difficult this one. What is the current thinking on "A12" Cas? Possibly Deutsche Jugend i.e. the youth organisations outside of the Reich (Banat etc)?

As far as the "I" is concerned, it possibly stands for "Jungstamm I" (a grouping of Fähnlein within a specific geographical area). Like the Unterbann and the HJ-Stamm, the Jungstamm was numbered using roman numerals. As we know, Reich DJ straps never showed the Jungstamm number so if my theory has any legs this will be further evidence that speaks for Deutsche Jugend. Or, I'm completely off-base :) I wish I could help more but I've never seen DJ straps with designations like these.
 
Regarding the A12, I only have Wilhelm Saris's book description(maybe he can chime in), where he suggests that 'A' may stand for Ausland and '12' might represent a specific area.

Interestingly, these two straps accompanied an original second pattern RFS breast insignia, a black HJ Gebietsfeldscher insignia, and two marine HJ wehrfunk patches, supposedly from a private household with some other patches in America.

It's evident that both straps are Deutsche Jugend related, given their unique style from that period. Could the presence of the letter "I" raises questions about a potential connection to a staff-level assignment or a rare Bann like Blinde, Gehörgeschadigte, etc?
 
Okay, I understand more now. So no proof yet regarding the meaning of "A12". I understand Wim when he does not give an unequivocal answer as to the meaning of such a designation. I have a large amount of primary literature and documents on the Hitler Youth too and have never read of such a designation for a unit within the Reich HJ/DJ.

The number on the straps of the (Reich) HJ and DJ for the greater majority of the TR was the Bann and Jungbann number respectively (in the early period the Unterbann and Oberbann were shown on HJ straps but these were deprecated). Nevertheless, within the Reich there was no Jungbann with the number A12 or indeed any other Bann or Jungbann number with an "A" prefix. Oe and B were in existence for a time but both were deprecated as part of the banning of the HJ in Austria and for the B Banne respectively with the latter disappearing in 1936/7.

Banne B and Bann G had specific insignia yes but they were organised in the same way as the rest of the HJ/DJ and BDM/JM i.e into Gefolgschaften (and equivalent) within Bann B or G. In short, I see no grounds for connecting "A12" to units within Banne B and G or any other Reichsbann. There is nothing in the primary literature that I have here that would suggest a link. All we are left with essentially, if we assume that these are DJ or Deutsche Jugend straps, is that "A12" and "I" have some other, as yet, unknown meaning.

The patches that you speak of may or may not be a grouping but we will never know and therefore the other things probably shouldn't be used in determining what "A12" and "I" mean . I'm interested in the "second pattern" RFS insignia. Can you show that please?
 
Two very interesting DJ shoulder stripes and their meaning have unfortunately not yet been clarified, but one can safely assume that there was a rule after 1938, since at least the stripes are woven according to the 1938 pattern. I hope the mystery will be solved and the Roman 1 will find its prey. Or are you sure that it is an "I"? As far as I know, the I was written similarly to the "J" back then. That's why I'm actually ruling out an "I".
 
Yes, you could well be right. I really don't have a clue about either of these straps. All I can say about them is that DJ straps with designations like these are not mentioned in the primary literature from the RJF that I have here. My sources are solid up to 1942/3 and I have a lot of primary sources reaching into 1945 and again, no mention of straps/unit designations like these. Deutsche Jugend is looking like a possibilty but proof is obviously required.
 
I want to thank you guys for thinking with me, hopefully we will find an explanation in the future.

Here is the RFS breast insignia:

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top