Enamel sign. BDM Untergau 198 Charlottenburg-Spandau

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mkholst said:
Fine pics of the back, but they also wrote: auf zeitgenössischem Schild.

Michael :denmark




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Thanks Michael
I know they wrote this in the auction, but after looking to other signs I see difference and that's why I asked for more opinions.
So if a seller has doubts about authenticity and doesn't dare to sell it as original for no complains afterwards, should we immediately believe them?
I think it would not be the first WW2 item sold as not original and looks to be an original.
I know it goes more the other way unfortunately..
 
I have no further insight into these enamel signs, but the thread seems interesting, so I just searched the internet for a bit to see what I could find. And that was just it. :001_smile:

Michael :denmark
 
Yes, interesting developments here. Perhaps someone at the auction house could give some background info on where they got their description from. In house or from an external contact? It's definitely possible that they got things wrong and that the sign is good after all.
 
Here the sign as used in my book about wall plaques.
It was in the possession of the collectors many years
before the collectors-market was "filthied".

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Further shown the many layers for enameling:

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wilhelm saris said:
as I am always interested in seeing photos of the use, could you try and find the photo, please!
Whatever the indication is.
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Oh yeees I found the photo after 1 hour searching on 2 HD.... :hail:

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wilhelm saris said:
Here the sign as used in my book about wall plaques.
It was in the possession of the collectors many years
before the collectors-market was "filthied".

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Further shown the many layers for enameling:

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Click to expand...


Some other photos according your info.

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I might be missing the thrust here but we know that these signs existed. Garry showed the Organisations buch scans and Wilhelm Saris wrote a book about TR enamel signs. Thing for me would be, is the enamel work on your sign like other period examples? That's what I would want to know before buying one.
 
schuere: now we are talking! Can you see or read the Untergau-number
with the Original photo?

Crack: Simple answer: yes. In my book there you can find it.
I have inspected the one I showed various times when I visited the collector.
That one is for sure okay! I do not speak of the ones I did not have at hand!

Here a few hints for identification:
drawings showing the most often found vaultings or form of the surface:

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reverse from a 100% Original:

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If going with fingers over the front surface one should feel the letters and
symbol is somewhat upraised. I showed this before, but here is also another one:

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I have handled nearly to 200 signs during the research of my book.
The lesser colors, the lesser layers. In such an occasion the height
of the enameling is often not so strong (bulbing).
 

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Here's a decent photo from 1942 showing the HJ enamel sign for Bann 159 and also the NSDAP "Hoheitsschild" which was required from Dec 1936 onward. It looks a bit ropey already but that might just be soot/grime collecting at the bottom.

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