Flieger-HJ without bann numbers

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Jack

Jack

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Hello,

I'm new here and I think this forum is really very instructive.

I have a pair of shoulderstraps of the -38 period, probably for a Rottenführer of the Flieger-HJ, worn (cf. imprint of the button) but without bann number.
Do you have any explanation for this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,
Jack

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I believe one could buy shoulderstraps from insignia merchants without embroidered Bann numbers at a reduced cost opposed to the normal shoulderstraps with numbers already embroidered at a greater cost .
 
Thank you. Wouldn't he have attached the numbers himself somehow? Because there were always uniform checks. I have such a document with missing ("zu beschaffenden") or objectionable ("zu beanstandenden") pieces. One point ist "Schulterstreifen mit Jungbann-Nummer" (shoulder strap with Jungbann number).
I am a bit perplexed.
It really must have been something that wasn't very common.
 
He should have , however ; he might not have had the time , It could have been also that he went through the transitional period (1938) and eventually just bought a regular pair of black straps with numbers . We probably will never know .
 
Maybe it has to do with an order from early February 1936 when it was announced
the Unterbann-numbers or "B" were to be omitted. Maybe the one or the other
manufacturer did misunderstand and produced the shoulder-straps wihout having
any identification.
Shortly thereafter it was noted the delivery of shoulder-straps with branch colors
were not allowed.
 
An interesting aspect, thank you, Wilhelm.
Did you come across such pre 38 boards like mine more often during your long research period?
 
This guy doesn't have any Bann numbers on his straps either. Wonder how many times he was told to get it sorted :lol:

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Sorry for insisting. But I would really like to know how common or rare such pre-38 pieces are :help:? Any advice is really appreciated.
 
In a note from June 1938 it is noted that shoulder-straps, not having a number indication,
no longer were allowed to be delivered, when I do read this well.

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You did read well :001_smile:.
Thank you Wilhelm. Your help and ideas are much appreciated.

I got these straps together with some other items, e.g. an early DJ-Oberbann patch (obviously of the same boy when younger) - and had never seen those brown ones without numbering, so I was at a loss.
I can't see any particular benefit of those straps without designation. So your explanation of a manufacturer's misunderstanding sounds very plausible to me. Maybe the boy was promoted to Rottenführer and the "regular" straps had been out ...
Am I right that the Flieger were integrated into the regular Bann structures or had they any higher own administration in the Gebiet (e.g. own Bannführer etc.)?
 
Your answer to the Flieger HJ question is on the forum Jack. Searchy searchy :thumb:
 
Shoulder boards without numbers

Hi. Just catching up with the forum and found this thread. I have 2 shoulderboards without numbers which has also left me puzzled. They both have have Litzen and one has the Rote Kordel. Both appear to be relatively early with button on style and grey backing, but both do not appear to have much sign of wear. But if they were to have numbers stitched/woven, why would the owners have fitted the Litzen and Kordel. And if they had been replaced with new regulation straps, would not the owners have transferred the Litzen and Kordel over to the new straps? All seems odd to me.

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Hello,

There is nothing surprising with your shoulder straps.
If they don't have numbers, that's perfectly normal and has nothing to do with the above explanations.
Looks like the black pair is NPEA, it's a pity you don't show the back of your straps. I could have told you for sure. Is the back of your straps Feldgrau ?.
The single strap is for the HJ-Flakhelfer.

Best Regards
Eric
 
Back of straps

Hi. Thanks for your response. Well you learn something new! Yes the back of all the straps is grey.

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Topofthehill said:
Hi. Thanks for your response. Well you learn something new! Yes the back of all the straps is grey.
Click to expand...
Hello,
I see you are new member, welcome to our HJ Forum !
Thank you for your additional photos, I am particularly interested in your pair of shoulder straps.
Seeing the backs of your straps, I see gray and not gray-green (Feldgrau). I show you mine in comparison and especially the back. Sorry, your pair is not NPEA.
The red cordon indicates a voluntary engagement during the war.
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In the context of the armband tag discussion HJ Armband stamped 'Motorbann IV/471' I posted a quotation from Wim's book which turned out to be proof of authorised existance not only of unnumbered HJ shoulderstraps but DJ Schulterstreifen (straps) as well. Please have a look at the last two points of the 1936 regulations.
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I have never seven this DJ variant though. And the brown HJ version without numbers still appears to be a rare one too. Apart from my own pair (first post in this thread), I have only seen a single unworn strap at Weitze's.
 

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Today I coincidentally found something interesting about this topic in the 1936 regulations.
There were two ways of selling the straps. First, the strap maker did the embroidery too, and then had to attach a 1 Pfennig RZM tag onto one of the two. Second, they delivered the raw straps ("blanke Schulterklappen") to special embroidery shops ("Stickereigeschäfte") for completion. The big advantage for them: no need to keep all of the Bann numbers in stock. If proceeding in this way, the strap maker had to attach a 1/2 Pfennig RZM tag onto one strap, and so did the embroiderer onto the second one.

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So this should be the purpose of unembroidered straps, and they should never be put on sale to the public.
As Wim has pointed out, the delivery of unembroidered straps was prohibited then in 1938 by the RZM.

The same goes for DJ straps.
 

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Very interesting topic and great information as always. I have a number of photos showing the NPEA wearing the plain black, white edged post 1938 straps but t does appear on certain occasions the boys wore straps with no numbers. On a delegation trip to Budapest in November 1940 under the command of Obergebietsführer Willi Blomquist, none of the Junior Leaders (Obergefolgshaftsführer and below) wore Bann desination numbers on their straps. I'm presuming maybe that is because they were chosen from various different Banns though they do wear their area triangles. The Trip contained boys from Gebiet 8 Niedersachsen and Bann 501 from Wien. The Obergefolgshaftsführer also sports what appears to be a overseas cap with white edging.

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