B-RAD
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Look at the hue under the pommel on photo #36 I'm calling it photoshopped
Hitler Youth Honour Daggers and bayonets with engraved pommels?
Yes, something is not right with that photo, and is it not strange that Emedals, just happens to have one at auction right now?
https://www.emedals.com/auctions/germany-hj-an-honour-knife
Emedals have their fingers and toes in every hole over at the WAF as well.
https://www.emedals.com/auctions/germany-hj-an-honour-knife
Emedals have their fingers and toes in every hole over at the WAF as well.
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I have updated the image, and noted that the dagger at auction at eMedals in the link above, is the same dagger that is in post one that was at Germanwarbooty for $2900 in 2012.
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eMedals hammer price was $651.-
Now do you want to see something insane? ANOTHER, at the same time as this WAF photo shows up, "honour dagger" offered by Johnson, for $3`000!
I kid you not, 3 grand! Here are detailed images from Johnsons site, note the GREAT etching detail on the pommel! Ha ha ha ha.
And while you are shopping at Johnsons, pick up one of a few dagger tags he has, at only $1000.- each.
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Now do you want to see something insane? ANOTHER, at the same time as this WAF photo shows up, "honour dagger" offered by Johnson, for $3`000!
I kid you not, 3 grand! Here are detailed images from Johnsons site, note the GREAT etching detail on the pommel! Ha ha ha ha.
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And while you are shopping at Johnsons, pick up one of a few dagger tags he has, at only $1000.- each.
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Almost forgot, Johnsons 3K honour dagger was name-etched, like so many are today.
That helps convince collectors it`s the real deal!
My tip, shop at eMedals, pick up one for $651.- do some etching yourself, and relist for 3K.
That helps convince collectors it`s the real deal!
My tip, shop at eMedals, pick up one for $651.- do some etching yourself, and relist for 3K.
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Updated collage, second top row is the same one as third bottom row. Ex. German War Booty Site for $2900.- sold at emedals for $651.- (refer to earlier posts in this thread)
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I am posting this interesting photograph to this thread as similar pics have been previously shared here. The middle fahrtenmessser seems a bit unusual. Appears to have a longer more pronounced quillion as found on the Carl Wüsthof Gladiator knives. May be the angle however. May have an eagle head type "stepped" pommel (again hard to tell for certain). Can not discern any engraving or circular "eye" to the pommel. Overall the piece appears to be of standard dimensions otherwise. There is clearly a grip diamond which is not seen on the so called "honor" knives. And the retention strap of the leather hanging assembly is mounted lower; between the diamond and the quillion. This of course could be due to a repair or refurbishment and not as originally manufactured. Thought others might have an interest .......
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And we are talking about the WAF, a forum that already tried to use a POS supposed period photo to justify a fantasy dagger. Namely the supposed Eickhorn period photo of the SA birdshead dagger. A total fabricated, horribly cast piece of rubbish Gottlieb tried to sell for $25`000, with a black and white photo of the dagger, stuck onto black photo album paper, with silver pen handwritten under the photo... and that was claimed to be a page from Eickhorn "archives"
Weitze then had the same birdshead dager, but golden, for the NSBO
If memory serves, he wanted something like €45`000 for it! Total poorly cast fantasy junk.
wilhelm saris
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Weitze then had the same birdshead dager, but golden, for the NSBO
I Always have a big laugh when I see the word NSBO with daggers or whatever. There are
some other organizations that give me a smile when a bayonet or dagger is mentioned.
Example: NSKOV
Those claiming this have no idea about regulations! They better keep their mouth shut!!
There will still be a very long thread on the WAF about these, started around 2009, called SA BIRDSHEAD DAGGER. I know that Gottlieb wanted $25`000 or even $29`000 for his, and then one appeared on Weitze`s with no price, but if you enquired about the price, it was €45`000. All the images will be on the WAF still, here is one I found on Google of Weitze`s NSBO "Birdshead Ehrendolch" It was a really horribly cast, and the NSBO insignia was clearly just from a membership pin that had been stuck on. The DAF insignia too was a normal membership pin that had been stuck on. Most people on WAF supported it being genuine, and Wittmann was going to include it in a new dagger book.
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And thankfully there are many images of the "NSBO Ehrendolch" from Weitze from around 2011 for EURO 45`000 on the internet for thos seeking more info.
...and as far as people just claiming things without checking basic historical fact.. well we have seen so much of it, and will always.
Silly things like Bill Shea and his LEBENSBORN SS membership pin.... and teh fact that he even debates them as being genuine, that`s the sad part and shows a total lack of regard for basic historical fact.
many more silly items that also just could not be genuine but collectors are more than willing to argue in their favour.
I would like to say that the majority are US or English collectors and dealers, and so they have an excuse for not being aboe to research German facts.. but actually lots of this nonsense comes from German speakers! So it is in no way just a language problem. In my opinion it`s a greed problem, and because it is a NAZI artifact, there are no rules, after all, NAZI`S were animals, we can change the facts about their life in an instant, and nobody cares!
When history does not work in your favour, or when you have a fake you would like to sell as genuine, just invent your own history, who cares?
Have a lovely SS FREUDENSCHAFT DONATOR PIN You may think you recognize this pin as a fake SSFM EHRENNADEL... but no, this is different, totally different organization nobody has heard of before. Just pretend...and give me your money!
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...and as far as people just claiming things without checking basic historical fact.. well we have seen so much of it, and will always.
Silly things like Bill Shea and his LEBENSBORN SS membership pin.... and teh fact that he even debates them as being genuine, that`s the sad part and shows a total lack of regard for basic historical fact.
many more silly items that also just could not be genuine but collectors are more than willing to argue in their favour.
I would like to say that the majority are US or English collectors and dealers, and so they have an excuse for not being aboe to research German facts.. but actually lots of this nonsense comes from German speakers! So it is in no way just a language problem. In my opinion it`s a greed problem, and because it is a NAZI artifact, there are no rules, after all, NAZI`S were animals, we can change the facts about their life in an instant, and nobody cares!
When history does not work in your favour, or when you have a fake you would like to sell as genuine, just invent your own history, who cares?
Have a lovely SS FREUDENSCHAFT DONATOR PIN You may think you recognize this pin as a fake SSFM EHRENNADEL... but no, this is different, totally different organization nobody has heard of before. Just pretend...and give me your money!
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In 2003 Wittmann sold one of these under "Laret Collection"for $3495.-
Take the time to read his insane description
note: HEISST instead of Heißt, note the terrible quality.....
Recently one sold on eMedals for $600.- Wow...... how prices have come down. $3,495.- was a lot of money in 2003.
Take the time to read his insane description
note: HEISST instead of Heißt, note the terrible quality.....Recently one sold on eMedals for $600.- Wow...... how prices have come down. $3,495.- was a lot of money in 2003.
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Can`t read the description coz of the watermarks, so changed the image a bit.. well worth reading... see how he sells the stuff?
And the shocking quality? From a guru that`s written books on blades, is considerfed the Blade Guru Par Excellance.. the crap cast-in-a-cats-littertray look just slipped his attention?
Great to see these old sales of his, just shows you the "salop" way he looks at the items, no interest at all, no questioning, just add the words EXTREMELY RARE (which they are not) and a price.
Tally so far, but for sure not all. Although it does seem very much like these all came from the same few people.. Johnson and Wittmann.
Two different kinds of HJ, and HJ and SS integrated, plus a seperate SS and a separate NSDAP.....
And no mention that the motto says HEISST and not as it should be, HEIßT.
And the shocking quality? From a guru that`s written books on blades, is considerfed the Blade Guru Par Excellance.. the crap cast-in-a-cats-littertray look just slipped his attention?
Great to see these old sales of his, just shows you the "salop" way he looks at the items, no interest at all, no questioning, just add the words EXTREMELY RARE (which they are not) and a price.
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Tally so far, but for sure not all. Although it does seem very much like these all came from the same few people.. Johnson and Wittmann.
Two different kinds of HJ, and HJ and SS integrated, plus a seperate SS and a separate NSDAP.....
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A few years back this was a "HJ honour dagger" according to him and the people upon whom he relies. No ifs and buts. Now it is something that "we call HJ honour bayonet - for want of a better term". As soon as he comes under pressure (mainly from us) he begins to amend his learned opinion (as do his mates). He also flip-flopped under pressure on the so-called "DJ" and "BDM" knives. All fluff, deflection, diversion and opinion. No facts and indeed no desire to find them or even to acknowledge them when others more resourceful find them for him. All that counts for him is Profit and being able to swagger around shows shooting the s_hit about s_hit.
His stance on the "DJ" knives is the same.. each year the story changes. Here are two sales from 2005 from his site. Since he started in 1999, he always had a separate section for DJ knives.
He claims:
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Well, to use his words...
haha yeah "some day we (dealers) will invent a watertight theory". They won't but I think if someone went all half-truth on us it would go something like this:
"Pray dealer gaggle, tell me more about the history of these knives"
"My pleasure Sir (draws confidently on cigar).
Well,
a batch of these HJ honour bayonets was found hidden under a false bottom in a wooden packing case in Solingen in the 1990s, possibly later or earlier - we can't remember exactly when but as we have got some from veterans it really doesn't f***ing matter. Anyway, at the time we didn't know what we had found so after checking for five minutes and still being none the wiser we decided to give the knives the name "HJ honour bayonet". We didn't regret it.
Although normally a utilitarian object, the ostensibly humble packing case is in fact pivotal to the understanding of these authentic artifacts because almost unbelievably it was the very same case that had previously been found in the very same Solingen factory decades earlier! In the 1960s when initially discovered, the case had contained a number of frankly quite disappointing small knives. Again, we had no idea what they might be but we remembered that the DJ had some quite small boys as members who might need small knives. You know, for whittling twigs, chopping up crab apples or grapes - that kind of thing. It made sense and so later these knives underwent a shoddy, idiotic transformation where enamel diamonds were amateurishly slapped onto scabbards (well, we couldn't chop up the knife grips could we... too obvious!) before ending up in books and in dealer inventories and catalogues as the much more valuable "DJ" and "BDM" knife (same unremarkable knife but without diamond). All of this was achieved without ever once letting proof and facts get in the way. Naughty yes but, as it turned out, very lucrative
However, the story of the packing case doesn't end there...Not only did the packing case have a false bottom that was missed in the 1960s, it also stood over a secret trapdoor in the factory floor which was discovered quite by accident two decades later after one of us wet himself next to the packing case and couldn't understand where the liquid had gone. It was a veritable Howard Carter-esque moment as we walked down the urine-soaked steps to see shelves stacked high with even more DJ and BDM knives (The DJs obviously without diamonds at this stage of course..). The greatest find was yet to come though because at the back of the small chamber we could see more packing cases. Upon opening these we were greeted by the spectacle of hundreds of perfectly preserved Olympic and Nürnberg HJ knives; many but not all with rather fetching stag handles. At this stage we didn't know that they were Olympic and Nürnberg knives of course as they hadn't been etched yet. Many years later we found two pieces of paper stuck inside one of the DJ knife scabbards. One was an insurance loss report for some knives and the other was a flyer from a knife maker with a two-for-one offer - something to do with "small HJ knives" anyway. I can't remeber exactly but they were definitely real.
Now, I wasn't there on any of these occasions so you must consider this to be third-party testimony. Some of the above seems fanciful at first but I know some big names who believe it so that's good enough fior me. Should the discerning and critically-minded collector require further confirmation he will find all of these knives and bayonets in collector books written by people who, I think, found the packing case or perhaps know someone who did. Don't quote me on that though...".
Wittmann`s just listed another.. $2250.-
Wittmann Antique Militaria #43612C Hitler Youth Honor Batonet with Motto
Wittmann Antique Militaria #43612C Hitler Youth Honor Batonet with Motto
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Just an observation if this were good & I may be wrong but there is virtually no wear or aging to the blade at the top where the engraving / etching starts but the rest of the blade & both the scabbard & knife look like they were dragged behind a pick up truck & this being an (award) Honor knife I would think that it would have been very well taken care of even by the vet who liberated it (that is if these knives in that configuration actually existed in the time period) .... JMHO
Mike