HJ buckle M5/276 Klein & Quenzer and SS buckle - What’s real and what’s not?

[Jazzer57]

This time I have two buckles that came in my HJ display. One has marks on the back, while the other does not. I’m hoping they are legit.

All comments are appreciated,
Regards

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[Jazzer57]

Well, unfortunately, the Waffen SS buckle appears to be a fake. I know this site is geared towards the DJ/HJ group but knowledge is knowledge. I want to believe that the HJ buckle is real so the jury is still out on that one.

Below is an excerpt from 'A guide to Collecting Waffen-SS Belt Buckles' which I found online. This describes my buckle to a tea.

'Fake Ground overhoff – RZM SS OLT/62637

Another easily recognizable buckle. The major fault on this example is the material used and the catch which is wrong for steel. These buckles were originally made in nickel but this buckle is made fully from steel. There is no steel buckles with this type of catch which is only seen on nickel buckles. Another distinguishable feature is the bordered swastika.

The design of the buckle is in my opinion a Tony Oliver product; which are marked RZM OLT and runes in a diamond. When OLT should make you run; the SS Never used runes in a diamond marking their buckles.'

Although this buckle came in the HJ display, it is now item number 12 of the fake, fantasies, and forgeries group.

 

[Garry]

Is the HJ buckle aluminium or steel? Are there any maker marks on the obverse?

 

[Jazzer57]

Is the HJ buckle aluminium or steel? Are there any maker marks on the obverse?

The buckle is steel and don't see a mark anywhere on it.

 

[Garry]

Thanks. Are there any markings at the bottom of the diamond (obverse)? HJ buckles are sometimes unmarked so it's not necessarily a big deal but it would be good to have a maker if he is there.

 

[Jazzer57]

Thanks. Are there any markings at the bottom of the diamond (obverse)? HJ buckles are sometimes unmarked so it's not necessarily a big deal but it would be good to have a maker if he is there.

Oh, Wait, yes sir. After some cleaning and closer looking there is indeed the RZM round along with M5/276 which, if I'm correctly using the RZM code list that I downloaded, belongs to Klein & Quenzer AG., Oberstein a. d. Nahe listed under Uniform Accessories. Jeez! Thanks to this site, and your guidance, I'm feeling like an investigator

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[Jazzer57]

Is this odd that it falls in the M4 Accessories group and not the M4 Buckle group? Does that mean the maker maybe wasn't authorized to make these and therefore is considered fake? Similar to the Otto Hoffman pins?

 

[Garry]

Nice. The buckle is a good one. From here:

Hitler Youth HJ buckle RZM M5/276 for review | Belts and Buckles

Hi everyone, would like opinions on the following buckle. Thank you.

www.hj-research.com

"Looks like M5/276 to me which would make it a Klein & Quenzer. This company is known to have marked its buckles with the incorrect M code (should be M4 obviously). The placement of the MM inside the diamond is also an oddity with K&Q buckles."

Also here (Chad Williams is a buckle expert):

M5/276 HJ buckle genuine or not? | Belts and Buckles

here are a few pics of one of my Klein & Quenzer buckles- this example is ink stamped M4/155 on the paper RZM tag. The buckle itself is marked M5/276 (in bottom of diamond). M4/115 is the correct mark for this buckle, the M5/ code should not have been used.

www.hj-research.com

 

[Jazzer57]

Nice. The buckle is a good one. From here:

Hitler Youth HJ buckle RZM M5/276 for review | Belts and Buckles

Hi everyone, would like opinions on the following buckle. Thank you.

www.hj-research.com

"Looks like M5/276 to me which would make it a Klein & Quenzer. This company is known to have marked its buckles with the incorrect M code (should be M4 obviously). The placement of the MM inside the diamond is also an oddity with K&Q buckles."

Also here (Chad Williams is a buckle expert):

M5/276 HJ buckle genuine or not? | Belts and Buckles

here are a few pics of one of my Klein & Quenzer buckles- this example is ink stamped M4/155 on the paper RZM tag. The buckle itself is marked M5/276 (in bottom of diamond). M4/115 is the correct mark for this buckle, the M5/ code should not have been used.

www.hj-research.com

Thank you Garry!

 

[Chad Williams]

HJ buckle is original as Gary said.

 

[Jazzer57]

Yes sir, and I did some research as well so I feel good about learning the things to look for.
Thanks