HJ cloth question

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maxrocky

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Hi,

does anyone know if any HJ cloth particularly the triangle patches, were made at Dachau? Any information would be very much appreciated.

maxrocky
 
wilhelm saris said:
Didn't you know Jo, all cloth insignia came from Dachau? Haha!
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Well I knew the HJ Olympia knivesand HJ Reichsparteitage kniveswere produced in Dachau, as well as the late-war DJ and BDM knives, but HJ cloth patches?
↑trigger warning♫♪♫↑ JOKE JOKE JOKE ↑

By the way, thanks for the two MA mags, they arrived last week :thumbup1: Forgot to let you know, been preoccupied trying to survive the heat wave :huh: Feels like I am back in Africa.
 
crack said:
Some people.....it.
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Sounds like something the Tooth Willi would have come up with, if you ask me. They have to put a sick twist on everything.
How is official cloth insignia supposed to be produced in a concentration camp? Germany was full of licensed manufacturers, the ONLY people/companies that were allowed to produce the stuff. On contract, under rules and regulations, on the complicated equipment and machines in their workshops, to specific standards.
WTF... KZ-produced official insignia? Can only be those 5 Watt bulbs over on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum that came up with this.
 
Very true. I've just been scouring WAF which is apparently the spiritual home of the Dachau story, and can find nothing of any consequence. No proof, just the usual piecing together of "stuff". Units from the US 45th Div are mntioned as being the people who found the stuff and it wasn't found in the concentration camp but in the SS camp in Dachau. Belief that these things are authentic is based on:

vet stories
a load of stuff reputedly sourced from 45 Div veterans and then placed in a museum. WAF has a pic of samples with handwritten notes/dates but to be honest it proves nothing - as some on the thread pointed out. It could just be total crap like the "salesman's samples" HJ distinguished foreigner badges...
"look at the reverse and you'll see one white line of thread"
"they don't glow"
"congrats on your Dachau insignia!"
"Showing finds like this is important because it illustrates to newer revisionist collectors that these Dachau insignias are indeed genuine and not postwar fabrications. Very nice discovery!"

I'm definitely NOT convinced :lol:
 
crack said:
"Showing finds like this is important because it illustrates to newer revisionist collectors that these Dachau insignias are indeed genuine and not postwar fabrications. Very nice discovery!"
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Walter`s seven crates of Xmas decorations found in a boarded up room in a glass factory in Prague in 2010 was also a "very nice discovery".
As was Wittmann`s never-ending supply of HJ Olympic knives found in Berlin in 1990, after the wall came down!
Collecting "Natsi Militaria", is for the most part, a very nice story.

I haven`t been able to log onto the WAF for a while now, just get this splatter of soy milk on the screen when I try, and lots of green goblins running around wiping their mouths with Ay-del-whys toilet paper!
 
crack said:
...WAF has a pic of samples with handwritten notes/dates
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Yes, I saw that too. The date next to the black/white "former HJ in the SS" sleeve patch is 1940 as I rememebr which puts it into a timeframe where its appearance should have been noted in some order or regulation. I'm wondering if Wim Saris has any SS regulations that mention it? As far as I was concerned the patch was unknown other than it being in piles of stuff allegedly plundered by 45 US Div troops.
 
Garry said:
Yes, I saw that too. The date next to the black/white "former HJ in the SS" sleeve patch is 1940 as I rememebr which puts it into a timeframe where its appearance should have been noted in some order or regulation. I'm wondering if Wim Saris has any SS regulations that mention it? As far as I was concerned the patch was unknown other than it being in piles of stuff allegedly plundered by 45 US Div troops.
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I will see if I am able to check it. Must ask a friend as I handed over all SS material too him.
When I collected I owned an embroidered version of this diamond in the mid-1970's or so.
I have no idea if I can give an answer too this!
 
No result yet.
The version for former SA members in the SS was noted in the Mitteilungsblatt
der Reichszeugmeisterei. The enlisted ranks as well as officers version was.
With the date May 11, 1940 the version for enlisted ranks was mentioned as
a new entry (Neuzugang). With a later date (early 1941) the officers version was!​


But between 1942 through 1944 there was not mentioned or any indication for
the version NSKK-Angehörige in der SS or HJ-Angehörige in der SS. Maybe a
plan and some were manufactured for the event or occasion "when"?

But the search continues. Who knows! Or is it all a rumour and just a fairytale?
Can't remember ever having seen any of the patches being worn, not the SA
version and surely not the HJ one!
 
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With a publication from October 30, 1939 the NSKK corps-leader allowed NSKK men to assign for the SS-Totenkopfverbände.
After their period they were allowed to return within the NSKK.

I did find more and this is very interesting:
in early 1940 and according to an order from the Reichsführer-SS (35/245/39 from December 13, 1939) it was allowed to all NSKK-men,
which volunteered for the SS-TV, to wear the regular NSKK-Kraftfahrraute at the right lower arm when wearing the SS uniform.

When reading this, I would not be wondered their also did come an order for HJ-members, volunteering for the SS-TV.
There surely will exist correspondence in relation to HJ-members and so their plea may have been honoured by the use of the diamond.
I know there were notes about the asking for permission at the HJ High Command to join the SS (November 1939).
​
 
The patches for SA and NSKK are being confirmed by their introduction letters.
For the HJ no result yet!

SA = Tgb.Nr.35/245/39 (RF/Pt from November 27, 1939;
NSKK = Tgb. Nr.35/245/39 from December 13, 1939.
The information was supplied too me by 'd Alquen. When
reading these letters one would think there could be one
also for the HJ. Who knows we will know one day!
 
Great work Wim :thumb: So that's two patches confirmed 100% with just the HJ patch to go.
 
Here's that pic that I mentioned earlier with the date 3.3.40 next to the SS/HJ patch:

You don't have permission to view attachments.
Source

Edit: correction, that's not a date. Probably the museum's catalogue/reference number.
 

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Have no idea, but who knows. I remember having seen the
handwriting before, but at this moment I cannot remember
who this was.

1940 could anyway fit.
The manufacturing is extremely lousy for all patches shown
and I would not buy any of them.
I know patches to exist with a better construction anyway.​
 
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