HJ Leader's Ring (Ehrenring für HJ-Führer)

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Garry

Garry

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I don't profess to know anything about these rings personally and I know of no verifiable information that would place them into the TR period but I offer the following information which was contained in a thread on a German forum. It may be of use to anyone looking at buying one of these items. If anyone can add any info please do.

The attached pictures show two apparent fakes. The fakes are said to have the correct maker mark but can be identified by the following differences to the originals:

Originals are said to be made of silver-plated alpacca and are therefore non-magnetic.

The front face of the fakes in the area of the eagle's head is very noticeably convex, the originals have a more shallow curve.

The distance between the tip of the sword and the upper edge of the wing is noticeably smaller on the fakes. On originals there are at least three rows of feathers between sword and wing upper edge. For the hammer the same rule applies.


The striations on the wings (the stylised feathers) are very pronounced (and higher in number) on the fake rings.

The most important differences can be observed on the eagle's head and in particular the beak, eyes and shape of the head. On originals the bird looks 'mean' (triangular eye) - fakes often have a round eye. On the fakes the beak and head are joined together as if they were one unit. On originals there is full separation between beak and head.

Here are pictures of two apparently fake rings:

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Two pictures of what is generally considered to be the real thing:

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Weitze likes this type (okay, might not mean much but it's information):

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This is apparently the correct MM but the fakes have these too:

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Don't know if it is authentic or not, this leader ring is from a french collection and made in neusilber/maillechort.
I t is marked Ges Gesch and B.v.A (Benno von Arent). There is one for sale at Huesken dealer site.

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Certainly going by the criteria I listed above that ring would come into the 'fake' category Lauri.

The general consensus on these rings would appear to be that too little is known about them for anyone to give a 100% answer either way. Personally, I'm unaware of any period information showing that these rings existed during the period and that they were awarded as is stated on various venues.

I wonder if Don Boyle has any expertise on these? I know that his speciality is the SS ring but perhaps he has looked at the 'HJ Leader' ring too.
 
very interesting thread. I prefer to stay away from such rings,unless I can check them in hand. Photos are very tricky nowadays.
 
Ok, so this ring existed, right?

Is it possible to know how many of them were made?

I agree that it is a little bit risky to jump into one of them.

Regards

Antonio
 
I still can't find anything definitive on these. Does anyone have any new information?
 
If we followed these like we are the HJ brown unmarked foreigners badges, we would see the same. Every month, without fail, one will be listed.
 
Without period documentation (regulations, good CLEAR photos, etc) IMO you take your chances with these things. There cannot be very many people who have experience in this area. These would have to be unofficial items anyway, more like jewelry or something than an official item for me.
 
Have another one, €185.- and it`s yours. LINK


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I would not tough them.:amen:

In a country like Germany, where there was structure, discipline, and tons of guidelines wich were printed on paper and distributed and were expected to be followed to the letter (altough numerous examples do excist of not following guidelines in different area's)
one might expect to find al least some Info about these rings, in regards who and from what rank one could expect to recieve and to be allowed to wear one. Listings of wich persons were rewarded with these very obviously visual ring, for that matter how does it come that untill now not one picture has come out of the closet with proof of wear :sneaky2:
And most of the time the measurements of these rings are huge.
They are, if they really existed certainly for adult people and not for young boys who worked there way up into the rankings.
Too much questionmarks.......too little answers or maeby's....... :confused1:
RED FLAG all over it :thumbdown:.....would not tough them even if one would be presented to me for free.
Anyway that is my opinion.
Mike
:belgium
 
If there is no period mention of them at all, then where does the name come from?
 
They seem to be known as "Ehrenring für HJ-Führer" or alternatively: "HJ-Führerring". Come on people, make your minds up! :frusty: The people I mean are dealers, auction houses, ebayers, Mil321ers etc of course because in 99% of cases, they are the only people who exude confidence when talking about the rings. As I say, I have yet to see this ring mentioned in any primary literature. I have seen mention on some forum that "a" ring was mentioned in some unknown TR publication/newspaper but the source is unknown to me. It seems clear that this source, if it indeed existed, did not show or describe that ring.

These rings (and the female version) have, in my opinion, become accepted simply because they exist and because the "right" people discuss them in positive terms. If real, I can only see them being a civilian, patriotic ring that had neither a "HJ leader" nor an "honour" connection.
 
I found this ring out for sale as HJ-Leaders ring

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I see confident talk by someone on a german forum who seems to be considered knowledgeable there. He stated that these rings were accompanied by an award document and that he had both including a presentation box for the ring. He didn't show any of the items and it seemed very nod nod, wink wink to me in a kind of "if I show it then the fakers will reproduce it" way that we sometimes see.

I also saw this on another forum:

These rings were simply awarded to any HJ who attained the rank of "Leader", which is why so many of them are found in Small sizes. The one you have posted must have been of particular pride to it's original owner, as he apparently had it Sized to fit him as an adult! In my opinion, the award documents are Far more rarely seen than the actual rings themselves.
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No proof for any of this was shown so it's just an opinion based on... hearsay? Anyway, has anyone ever seen one of these documents? I'd love to get more information on the rings/award docs to find out whether they really are from the period and not some post-war hump.
 
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