HJ SIDE CAP , Thoughts please on originality

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HJ77

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Hi Guys,
What are your thoughts on this cap regarding its originality.
Does it look like a good one?
My apologies , these are the only pics I have and hope they can help.
Thank you in advance.
James
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Hi Tpatcher,
Unfortunately, there is no RZM tag under the liner.
James
 
Since the HJ diamond is metal it could be an early one before the RZM system I would say. There are many side caps without an RZM tag.
 
Comparing your cap to one in my collection, my opinion it that yours is likely an original. I see yours has a double seam on top and in the garment industry a double seam is indicative of higher quality construction and may be a manufacturer preference. This also could be indicative of an early version (as mentioned by Clauz). Otherwise the fabric and head band match well to mine. The picture of the interior on mine came out a bit shiny, but it's really more like yours, but the fonts on the size stamps are very close to one another. I purchased mine from a seasoned dealer, who got it from a veteran's estate. He was trying to sell this with a second NSDAP item I did not want and was able to get him to part with the cap. Here are pictures of mine to compare.
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before the RZM system came into being, this cap did not exist!

Here a part of a text for a book that never was finished:
A novelty in early 1936 was a new HJ cap, known as the HJ-La­germütze.
This forage cap was authorized in February 1936, but already a favorite headdress form
within other organizati­ons as the SA, but also the DJ. For all it's pipings were orde­red to
be bright red. -*-

-*-
"Vbl.d.HJ" February, 1936, p.25. Nr.7: "HJ-Lagermütze";
 
Since your cap has the standard head size of 56 at that time, it shouldn't be difficult to take the measurements and compare them with the RZM regulations ;-).
After all, everything has been regulated, the front height to the piping, its thickness, the dimensions of the "flap" etc.

Of course, Wim is right that the Lagermütze/later Sommermütze cap had to have a RZM label from the beginning. The 1936 version was a red one at 5 Pfennig.

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Hi HJ77,

Is it just my imagination or is it just a shadow above the HJ diamond ?,has your cap maybe had a Adler sewn above it ? thats been taken off ? I was reading on the forum about the HJ Sommermutze that from 30 09 1938 a cloth Adler was to be worn above the HJ diamond. Then from 1939 only Lower Leaders were allowed to wear the cloth Adler above the metal HJ diamond, then the cloth HJ diamond replaces the metal diamond on 17 04 1940.

i have a question, did the early metal HJ diamond on the Sommermutze have the 2 x prongs as seen on HJ knife or the normal backing pin more commonly seen ?

Best regards....Ewan :spain
 
Hi Team,
This is becoming extremely informative for me and I thank all who have made a contribution to help identify its originality.
The good news is this evening I picked this cap up and have it in hand after spending some 2 hours to drive and get it, well worth it.
Its late here but I promise tomorrow I will take some better pics that do the cap justice than the original ones that started this thread.
I have a real good feeling about it now that I have it in hand and will share quality and detail photos.
Thank you,
James
 
Hi Team,
Please find additional photos as requested, hoping these are better from previous photos.
There has never been an RZM tag anywhere around the inside from what I can see now that I have it in hand.
Also I can not see any signs of any Adler , cloth ( stitching ) or metal ( Pin holes ) however there does look like a there is a shape or perimeter of an Adler to some degree on last pic, what do you think?.
Wim, the piping certainly looks bright red, what are your thoughts?
Tpatcher, the interior is almost exact as yours with same leather sweatband with detail around edge.
Hope this helps some what .
Hope to hear back soon.
Thanks for your help once again .
James
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Thanks again.
James
 

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Is there area where tag was cut out near stitching under sweat band? Thats a good sign of originality.
 
Is there area where tag was cut out near stitching under sweat band? Thats a good sign of originality.
 
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