Latvian HJ flak helpers armband

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Paul Ayerst

Paul Ayerst

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IS THERE ANY PROOF THESE EXISTED ? THERE IS CURRENTLY ONE FOR SALE ON WAF

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Somewhere I've seen a period photo of one of these in wear, I think in a collection from Texas. As for the example offered, I don't know for sure. Pricey to take a gamble on unless somebody is positive it's legit.
 
In the "Deutsche Uniformen-Zeitschrift" from August 1944, page 4 various of these armbands were
described: Armbinden und Mützenabzeichen der Zöglinge der SS. The middle desgin was simultaneously
the worn cap badge. Mentioned were:
Estland
Lettland
Litauen
Weissruthenien
Galizien
Ukraine
Russland
Wolga- und Krim Tataren.

They surely will have been made for the SS-Luftwaffenhelfer.
 
wilhelm saris said:
In the "Deutsche Uniformen-Zeitschrift" from August 1944, page 4 various of these armbands were
described: Armbinden und Mützenabzeichen der Zöglinge der SS. The middle desgin was simultaneously
the worn cap badge. Mentioned were:
Estland
Lettland
Litauen
Weissruthenien
Galizien
Ukraine
Russland
Wolga- und Krim Tataren.

They surely will have been made for the SS-Luftwaffenhelfer.
Click to expand...
Yes i agree, below is the image from that paper, and here is the link to the August 44 paper.

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Thanks guys. I agree too but can it be confirmed that they were actually made and worn? The discussion at the link in post #3 above did not reach that conclusion so it would be good to clear that up.
 
Quote from the article:
Auf der jeweils nachstehend bescheibenen Armbinde ist in Stoff aufgesetzt das abzeichen, wie es auch an der Mütze getragen wird.
Click to expand...
In the article, it says the color for this is Purpur!!!
 
I think the point Don was making is that these armbands were planned and perhaps even made but that they weren't worn. He quotes Littlejohn's book "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich" which apparently contains testimony given by those who served in these units. However, the evidence from the DUZ is clear so we must assume that they were at least made.
 
Yes well, the seller has to prove that the item he is selling is original, and so far - well according to the found period evidence - it does not look too good. Color is "apparently" wrong and the way it is printed instead of, as the article says, multi-piece, is also wrong.

edit: Amazing how it has been "self-authenticated" (well as good as) by one post saying nothing more than:

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original sale thread: quote:
Got the thumbs up on the Political Org. forum.
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Ooooh, if only it was this easy, as there will be a positive "thumbs up" for ANY item posted anywhere on any forum. But to use one short "thumbs up" as a good sign? as a reassuring sign, a post that contains no other info? crazy really but nothing out of the ordinary. Just another reason why my general-forum days are numbered (actually they are over.) Gollum and the Grave Robbers did it for me a few weeks back, and since then my interest in repetitive cat tail chasing is dwindling...
 

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Personally I would think that they would be printed or woven but not paint. The paint would fall apart easily on the field so I wouldn't though it but I could very well be wrong. I have a photo of a different armband from the sheet being worn that I will post when I find it...
 
It's actually none of he ones there but a different one. He does look like youth but also not the SS patch. Isn't the SS triangle a volunteer thing or something like that? So that would definitely say it is something in the SS like wilhelm says....


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kylesbullets said:
Personally I would think that they would be printed...
Click to expand...
No, the announcement is pretty clear, not printed!

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Post 7 on the thread you linked to Garry says:
but from the 4 dec 44 the designation Luftwaffenhelfer was changed to SS-Zöglinge
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But in August 1944 they were already being called the SS-Zöglinge? (see caption of the image in post 12 from the August 1944 UM.)
 
Well I can't read german so I had to go translate the whole thing with still 1 word unsuccessfully so here is what I got. So this would mean it would have paint or something along those lines? So the armband would then use red, white and purple which this one doesn't have the purple on it...

The following are the armbands and Huezen badge of the SS-helper un shown briefly described.
On the armband each described below is in substance been putting the badge, as it is worn on the Mutze. Latvia. The armband also shows the colors of the Latvian flag and indeed purple with a white stripe medium of about one-fifth of the total width. The badge on the Mutze is a purple upright diamond, which is covered with a thin white saltire, and its purple umrandertes center cross field surrounds a purple swastika. The large diamond is white and purple in color mistook screened changed to Hauptderstellung
 
Jo Rivett said:
Post 7 on the thread you linked to Garry says:

But in August 1944 they were already being called the SS-Zöglinge? (see caption of the image in post 12 from the August 1944 UM.)
Click to expand...

I'll link that post to your document Jo. Cheers :thumb:
 
kylesbullets said:
Well I can't read german so I had to go translate the whole thing with still 1 word unsuccessfully so here is what I got. So this would mean it would have paint or something along those lines? So the armband would then use red, white and purple which this one doesn't have the purple on it...

The following are the armbands and Huezen badge of the SS-helper un shown briefly described.
On the armband each described below is in substance been putting the badge, as it is worn on the Mutze. Latvia. The armband also shows the colors of the Latvian flag and indeed purple with a white stripe medium of about one-fifth of the total width. The badge on the Mutze is a purple upright diamond, which is covered with a thin white saltire, and its purple umrandertes center cross field surrounds a purple swastika. The large diamond is white and purple in color mistook screened changed to Hauptderstellung
Click to expand...
Sorry, should have added the English translation.
"...Ist in Stoff aufgesetzt.." this means that the center part, or disc as it is called on the NSDAP armbands, or Diamond on HJ, is made from Cloth, and stitched on. The same as other armbands were made. The printed armbands, are not late war, but the complete opposite, very early 1930`s, until they were forbidden by the NSDAP in mid-1935. I dont know what Purpur would translate to in English, but in any case it says that the color is the same as the flag, which is a WAF-red :) or a mixture of red and purple, but not bright NSDAP red though, and as you`ll know from an old WAF thread Kyle, these Latvian armbands always are shown in printed form, sometimes even with a NSDAP ortsgruppe stamp on them :pound:

Funny how all the foreign insignia that is always found for sale on many dealers sites today, stuff produced right at the end of the war, is all W O V E N , yet when it comes to an armband the masses are more than willing to believe that they were printed! I guess because of the "late war printed" myth!
 
I remember reading about the printed armband posts here and thought it was interesting as veterans had sheets of these brought back with them. They must have been taken and put there. I usually tell everyone I meet that the printed armbands are early and nearly nobody knows that. There were some armbands that did go from woven to printed in the era like the wehrmacht traffic regulator armband. They were woven but they got printed later on. Purpur would mean purple so it is would possibly be along the lines of burgundy in color. But that means that they did not print them or sew the stripe and it was some kind of paint. The Lativan flag in google comes up as a NSDAP red and an almost purple color but then there is the burgundy color which I attached so it would need to be this shade with a 1/5 of the armband sized stripe to be original.... Plus we still don't have a conclusive answer as to if they were worn or not. they were probably produced but never issued and then destroyed by the soviets with few surviving if any...
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kylesbullets said:
Plus we still don't have a conclusive answer as to if they were worn or not. they were probably produced but never issued and then destroyed by the soviets with few surviving if any...
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There is a video of them being worn, and an image still from the video in Littlejohns book. (image stolen from WAF, yes, i am a thief!)

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Cheers Jo. That answers my question rather nicely :thumb:
 
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