Marine HJ cap - Reichsseesportschule 1 - opinions needed

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Chlodwig

Chlodwig

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Hi guys , I came across this hat here and need your opinions to it. I know that there are a lot real experts here that might support me a little with some good advice. Tried to take some pictures that show details but unfortunately I was not able to take details of the cap´s badge revers. The reverse of the badge shows two splints ( not a needle) and it is marked with a number and RZM . The hat also has a tag inside. The tag is sewn into the inside of the cap. Thought these hats were in white but this one is only dark blue. Do not know if the hat belongs to an early or late period.



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Hello, This is the winter setup. In summer a white cover was added. These don't always have the RZM tag like yours does and I think the cap is a nice original. The splints on the badge are correct for headwear
 
Hey crack, thanks a lot for your nice comment and your advice. Now I finally know why the Marine HJ has worn two different colours for their hats.
 
Here are examples from my collection. I forget when exactly, but I think the white tops were phased out. I have to check with Marine HJ on that (Dani). The cap posted looks quite nice to me and as Crack mentioned, probably 40% or so of the caps do not have the HJ RZM tag. This one appears to have a good one, but better photos would be needed to be absolutely sure. Looks good to me.

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What an awesome collection beitzen7 - I really love your hats with the beautiful cap talleys. Yes, I agree , mostly these hats don´t have a tag inside - but anyway they are genuine hats. I would guess that many boys cutte out the tag to make
it more comfortable to wear the hat. Similar to us when we cut out a tag from our favourite pullover :001_tongue:
 
I own 15 caps and many have the HJ tag inside, probably 5 do not, at least official tags. I also think that some of the caps just carried over from pre HJ days since youth maritime units existed for a long time prior to HJ days. Also, in the beginning, there was variation with the tags too and those caps were not thrown away just because new regulations came out later to formalize the official MHJ cap (all my opinions).

So I have seen a variety of tags inside, or sometimes even writing, but I consider the entire cap before I buy it, not just if it has a tag or not.

They were never cut out IMO as they are inside the sweatband. Like this one here from my collection.

John

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Yes I agree . I didn´t see a cutted out tag yet. But it is interesting that almost 50% of those caps do not have a tag inside. I have no doubts that even those without a tag are genuine and worn hats. Let me ask you for a simple but important detail: From the 15 caps you have - how many of them possess a HJ diamond held on the cap by two prongs? I know some have the HJ diamond held by a needle but I think these are not the original diamonds. Can you tell something about this detail? And by the way: Do you have a picture that shows several of your caps in one place? Must be an impressive picture !
 
Officially the diamond with prongs is the official one for the headgear,
surely in the earliest days, but the one with needle was allowed.
Reason: it did not make such big holes!! This was told too me by former HJ-
members of various branches. The prongs fitted in the seam of the naval caps.​
 
Chlodwig said:
Yes I agree . I didn´t see a cutted out tag yet. But it is interesting that almost 50% of those caps do not have a tag inside. I have no doubts that even those without a tag are genuine and worn hats. Let me ask you for a simple but important detail: From the 15 caps you have - how many of them possess a HJ diamond held on the cap by two prongs? I know some have the HJ diamond held by a needle but I think these are not the original diamonds. Can you tell something about this detail? And by the way: Do you have a picture that shows several of your caps in one place? Must be an impressive picture !
Click to expand...

Most of mine have prong, some have pins. John
 
Here is one I won on ebay for a reasonable price , The Kriegsmarine cap tally was hand stitched on in 6 places around the cap . I have received this cap yesterday and removed the KM tally , underneath were the original attachment threading to insert the MHJ cap tally . There are attachment threads at the front peak of the white top to insert an HJ cap pin on diamond . You can see this in one of the photos . I will post photos of my restored cap soon . ( I believe that some of these MHJ sailor caps were used in the kriegsmarine later on as this is the 2nd one in 3 months I have seen listed on ebay with the HJ Rzm tag on the inside ) .

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I love stories like this JoeCool. Good for you and good eyes spotting these two caps. It is possible that the caps were carried over to the KM just as Marine Youth caps prior to 1933 carried over to the MHJ. John
 
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