MARINE HJ REICHSSEESPORTSCHULE 5 CAP TALLY

[beitzen7]

Another nice tally has been sold by a dealer but I wanted to ask if his description was correct in regard to location.

The school list here says:

Reichsseesportschule 5 Eltville, Gebiet Hessen-Nassau.

But the dealer states it is:

Heisternest/Danzig-Westpreußen

I wish I could attach an image of the tally but for some reason the forum keeps saying Error 500. Any help there would be appreciated. John

 

[Garry]

He's wrong John. Reichseesportschule 5 was located as per the list on the forum. You can't see it at the moment but I uploaded an attachment a few weeks ago showing that in 1942, School 5 had recently been brought into service at that location.

There's a notice here regarding the problems with attachments which started today. The forum is now on a new server but the attachment system isn't working yet along with a couple of other things. I and the techs hope to have these fixed over the next few days.

Edit: attachment system is now working normally

 

[beitzen7]

Thanks Garry

 

[beitzen7]

He's wrong John. Reichseesportschule 5 was located as per the list on the forum. You can't see it at the moment but I uploaded an attachment a few weeks ago showing that in 1942, School 5 had recently been brought into service at that location.

Yes, I have that, but wanted to confirm. John

 

[beitzen7]

Attachments

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[Garry]

Hi John,

Buddrus mentions in his book on p192 that there were six schools including Heisternest (which is in sixth place on the list). However, the reference Buddrus gives is actually the one I mentioned in post 2 (Gebrdschr. 7/42) which only lists five schools and doesn't mention Heisternest.

Buddrus page 192:

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and the order (again ) from 1942 that he uses as a reference:

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On p1089 Buddrus shows Heisternest as Reichsseesportschule 6 in the section covering the RJF structure 1941-45 but there is no reference given and therefore no way to tell in which year the school came into use. We have to assume I think that Reichsseesportschule 6 Heisternest was raised (or a pre-existing Gebiet-level MHJ training school was renamed to Reichsseesportschule) at some point after the date of the 1942 order otherwise Buddrus would not have mentioned it. A MHJ Seesportschule did exist in Heisternest (reference 1 1944, Reference 2 1944) but neither reference calls it a Reichsseesportschule. However, that may be true or just the result of fading memories due to the passage of time.

Have you asked Fruth what his evidence is for Reichssesportschule 5 being Heisternest as opposed to Eltville?

 

[Jack]

A MHJ Seesportschule did exist in Heisternest (reference 1 1944, Reference 2 1944) but not, as far as I'm aware, a Reichsseesportschule.

Garry, a fact that supports your thesis: Former course participants always talk about a "Seesportschule Heisternest", not a Reichsseesportschule. I checked it via Google. It's at least an indication ...

 

[Garry]

It is a good indication Jack. I was actually amending my post to make that point more clear at the same time as you were writing yours hence the reason for your quote not being in my post any longer

 

[Jack]

Garry, Buddrus is right, Heisternest WAS a Reichsseesportschule. I found a Dissertation/doctoral thesis by M. Stepko-Pape on the town of Gdynia=Gdingen=Gotenhafen, entitled "Die wartende Stadt 1926-45". On p309: "So dokumentierte die NS-Presse auch den Besuch des rumanischen Ministers Iliescu in Gotenhafen: "Rumänischer Staatsjugendführer stattete gemeinsam mit einem rumänischen Divisionsgeneral und mehreren Offizieren der Reichsseesportschule der Hafenstadt einen Besuch ab." (Short translation: Romanian State Youth Leader and entourage paid Reichsseesportschule a visit).

Source: DV (= "Danziger Vorposten", newspaper), 01.10.1943: "Minister Iliescu in Gotenhafen. Der rumänische Staatsbesuch in der Reichsseesportschule."

So we even have a date - it must have existed in 1943.

 

[Jack]

As I remember, Reichsseesportschule III in Ziegenort/Pommern was a docked sail training ship, the "Admiral von Trotha" - much smaller than "Gorch Fock" & Co, of course.

Yes, and here's the source:
Jahnke/Buddrus: Deutsche Jugend (1989), p165f.

"Near Rügen" became Ziegenort, near Usedom .

And we have got a - probable - date of establishment of school No. 3: autumn 1939.
According to Wikipedia, SS "Egerland" was acquired by the Reichsverkehrsministerium/Reich Ministry of Transport in August 1939 and renamed as "Admiral von Trotha". So it fits in nicely.

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[beitzen7]

Have you asked Fruth what his evidence is for Reichssesportschule 5 being Heisternest as opposed to Eltville?

He does not respond to my emails, I have tried. John

 

[Garry]

Nice one Jack Great period reference for the existence of the school in 1943. Ties in very nicely with the Buddrus info. With the other order from 1942 showing School 5 as being Eltville, the only way the dealer can be right is if the schools were re-numbered at some point - which I doubt.

 

[Jack]

In October 1943 school No. 5 was still situated in Eltville, as this finding demonstrates. It's from a gift book which is for sale on Mili.
Like Garry I don't think that there has been any changes of numbering until the end of war.

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[Garry]

Thanks Jack