NSD Oberschule Feldafing dagger "Ehre, Kraft, Freiheit"

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janjan

janjan

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I want to show my bajonet awarded by the NSD Oberschule Feldafing


Admin Edit: the interested reader should read this thread to completion. It establishes beyond doubt that daggers were worn by certain personnel at the school but it has not yet been conclusively shown that they had this engraved motto. That is not to say that the following dagger is a fake but rather that there is as yet no information on the motto.

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Hi Janjan , I am not an edged weapon expert , however ; the bajonet looks nice . what does the inscription say ?
 
Ehre, Kraft, Freiheit.....Honor, virtue (Force, power or vigor), freedom !
 
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Indeed. "Ehre, Kraft, Freiheit"

Hi Janjan,

Many thanks for showing these interesting and of course rarely seen items from NSD Oberschule Feldafing. The certificate is interesting as it shows him achieving the Reifeprüfung in 1938 but in 1942 a further entry can be seen as attestation that the document is in order. I wonder why that was necessary?

As you know, there is plenty of information out there regarding the school itself but not so much on these knives. I only have snippets of information on them and haven't personally been able to find any primary sources that explain/show what they looked like and why, when and to whom they were awarded. I haven't even seen a photo where pupils are shown wearing them. Have you come across any?

Strictly speaking this isn't a "HJ" item because NSD-Oberschule Feldafing was outside of the NPEA system and therefore not controlled by the HJ so I suspect that if there is primary literature waiting to be found that it will be in NSDAP or SA records. Perhaps Wim Saris will have more on this. I see that US dealer R Weinand has been reported as having seen original Eickhorn factory files that show a 1942 order for 500 of these mottoed daggers. Do you happen to know whether he has ever shown a copy of the order anywhere or whether it can be seen on a forum somewhere or in a book?

I'm very interested in finding out more as we have very little on this school on the forum.
 
Hello Garry,

What is the exact translation of the word "Kraft" in English ?
 
I would translate the etch as "Honour, Strength, Freedom" Eric

"liberty" instead of "freedom" would be acceptable too I think.
 
I wonder .. if this extremely poor etching was found on an SS or SA dagger, it would be declared a fake instantly!

Supposedly an: Ehrenseitengewehr für Schüler ab der 6. Klasse.. (you will note that the HH auction went unsold!)
Or SA-related: ..use by the guards at the Feldherrnhalle Monument in Munich!

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Or, (& my personal choice) a complete fantasy etching, with no connection to the HJ, SA, Schools or anything else? Am i wrong? and why is it in Sütterlin? ..possibly to make it more believable?
 

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Why do you think it is a fake do you have so mutch experiance with these bayonets?
Dit you have so many hands on these bayonets I don`t think so.
The one in the auktion isn`t mine but i don`t say it is a fake ownly from the pictures
 
janjan said:
Why do you think it is a fake do you have so mutch experiance with these bayonets?
Dit you have so many hands on these bayonets I don`t think so.
The one in the auktion isn`t mine but i don`t say it is a fake ownly from the pictures
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it is easy to understand, the blade is shiny and engraving is a rough-and-ready work !.
This bayonet is so rare that it is a museum piece which cannot be found.
To reply your question, I've never had it on hands and it would be utopian to believe otherwise.
I hope that the translation is ok.....
 
Garry said:
Indeed. "Ehre, Kraft, Freiheit"

Hi Janjan,

Many thanks for showing these interesting and of course rarely seen items from NSD Oberschule Feldafing. The certificate is interesting as it shows him achieving the Reifeprüfung in 1938 but in 1942 a further entry can be seen as attestation that the document is in order. I wonder why that was necessary?

As you know, there is plenty of information out there regarding the school itself but not so much on these knives. I only have snippets of information on them and haven't personally been able to find any primary sources that explain/show what they looked like and why, when and to whom they were awarded. I haven't even seen a photo where pupils are shown wearing them. Have you come across any?

Strictly speaking this isn't a "HJ" item because NSD-Oberschule Feldafing was outside of the NPEA system and therefore not controlled by the HJ so I suspect that if there is primary literature waiting to be found that it will be in NSDAP or SA records. Perhaps Wim Saris will have more on this. I see that US dealer R Weinand has been reported as having seen original Eickhorn factory files that show a 1942 order for 500 of these mottoed daggers. Do you happen to know whether he has ever shown a copy of the order anywhere or whether it can be seen on a forum somewhere or in a book?

I'm very interested in finding out more as we have very little on this school on the forum.
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Hallo Janjan,
I see important questions in this quote here. If the only evidence that this dagger is being worn by students at the NSD-Oberschule and later Reichsschule is Mr weinand I am suspicious if he does not show a picture or scan. If not shown or known then we must say that there is doubt of the provenance on these daggers or? Are there no photographs of students with these daggers?
 
janjan said:
here a link to a topic on this bayonet on a other forum perhaps you could learn

NSD Oberschule - GermanDaggers.com
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Hi Jan-jan. Please show me what we can learn from that thread? The bayo is a complete fantasy item, sorry if you wasted good money on it, you should have bought a mint DJ knife instead.
If you mean THIS quote from Weinlands:
In the Eickhorn Factory Files I saw an order for 500 of these bayonets from Feldafing,
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Then the answer is simple. :puke:. It reminds me of what Craig Gottlieb and Thomas Wittmann call a "Period Eickhorn Factory file" supporting the sale of a fantasy SA birdshead dagger, when Wittmann writes in his books, that the bogus, home-made photos, (made by the forger Jim Atwood) were directly from the, quote; Eickhorn factory files.

The people telling these lies, are the same people who sell these items. They are always mint, always the rarest thing ever (although are found on a regular basis) and are always accompanied by a FABLE of "i have seen in the period files..or i once had a photo of them in wear..but have since lost it" when none of them can even read German. If you would only let common sense prevail.

Weinlands is more than welcome to jump on this thread, but will he? will any of them? They all stick to German Daggers Forum, where they can freely Show-and-tell, without the fear of anyone daring to question their motives behind what they are preaching. And as we all know, as soon as someone does, dare to question, they will be booted off that forum quicker than the time it takes to join.

If you own this, and are happy with it, thats fine, but i see absolutely no connection with this, and the Third Reich whatsoever. And the bayo that did not sell at HH, was because it was too expensive? Really? a whole grouping of items, with supposedly the rarest bayo, and at 1,200 there were no takers? Come on, common logic!!! when Wittmann, Weinlands, Johnson and their freinds are always selling the fantasy RPT and DJ knives for 1,900 each, and one like this, in a big lot of other items, does not sell for 1,200? Alarm bells are ringing, and if they are not, they want to be!
 
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janjan said:
here a link to a topic on this bayonet on a other forum perhaps you could learn

NSD Oberschule - GermanDaggers.com
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But you say yourself on that thread that you looking for evidence...? Nobody gave you evidence on that thread and the photograph shows no knives of this type so what can I learn from it?? What did you learn from it that make you so loud?? Dealer Weinand did not show the order he only says that it exists. Have you seen it? I must say that I do not like your tone. Sorry but you are 'ordering' me to learn from that thread what is only lots of people comparing knives that have no evidence that they existed in the Third Reich?
 
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PAUL AYERST said:
I am 64 and still waiting, JO is older but has quit waiting :pound::canada1
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?? Have i suddenly aged a decade overnight.. and a few years on that too...?? I`ll have to ask the wife, she`ll know. Oh wait, now i get it, you once saw period documents from the Swiss files that said i was 64?
Man, 64? imagine that.. life almost over.... :bounce:
 
OK, i see now.... originating from a known forger of fake and fantasy items, from the same "Eickhorn period factory files" as these ones here...that Jim Atwood clearly made himself...and that clearly have nothing in common with known, period, factory files - from any maker/especially not from Eickhorn - (in fact the mere suggestion should be beaten to death).. that must be very comforting to those who own one.:thumbup:

R Weinand on GDC said:
Sorry, I saw a large grouping of Eickhorn factory files at the MAX Show when Atwood (who bought them when the Eickhorn company closed) was selling them and I ramdomly leafed through the stacks of invoices and just happened to read them and this was one I took note of as they were sold to a collector from Tx.
I have found a six of this bayonet out of the woodwork, directly from veterans and had always wondered what their purpose was, and, by stroke of luck, was in the right place at the right time.
I believe the collector considered doing a book on the files, but he was not capable of the translation and, due to the large number, abandoned the project and, I have been told, sold the files and I don't know where they went.
Also, unless you were a knowledged collector, you wouldn't have caught the significance of the invoice.
At the time (1980s) interest in files was not of importance like it is today.
_________________________
MAX CHARTER MEMBER

LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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So, at the moment the only proof that this knife is from the period and that it was worn by members of NSD-Oberschule Feldafing (later Reichsschule) is an Eickhorn catalogue that has been shown to have been used by Mr Atwood to legitimise copies and fantasies that he arranged to have made for the collector market?

Edit: over on GD, someone has asked about that catalogue and a member there says he knows who has it now. Hopefully a scan will be shown. Would be very useful indeed. There is still the problem with Atwood's involvement but at least we might be able to see the page ourselves.
 
Garry said:
So, at the moment the only proof that this knife is from the period and that it was worn by members of NSD-Oberschule Feldafing
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The HH auction says: NSD Oberschule Starnberger See
:clap2:
But i am sure that someone else has seen, 50 years ago, a period Eickhorn finger-painting, showing that 500 were ordered for this school as well.
 
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