Unit designation on a HJ .22 rifle plate

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zacker

zacker

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The 111 and 412, would the proper term be Gefolgschaft 111 and Bann 412? Also I see the 111 is termed often with the HJ group from Berlin in The Handbook of the HJ, so would this be a group from Berlin sent to Aschersleben ?

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zacker said:
The 111 and 412, would the proper term be Gefolgschaft 111 and Bann 412? Also I see the 111 is termed often with the HJ group from Berlin in The Handbook of the HJ, so would this be a group from Berlin sent to Aschersleben ?
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Hello,

Are those not roman numerals (III)? Assuming that they are, the HJ stopped using them to designate a Gefolgschaft five years before your Bann was raised so with that in mind, the stamp can only mean:

HJ-Stamm III Bann 412
or
Unterbann III Bann 412

However, the latter is highly unlikely as that formation is too large and spread out so that only leaves the former as a possibility. Just for info: Stamm III (in any Bann) will have consisted of Gefolgschaft numbers 11 to 15.

It's possible, although unlikely, that there was a Gefolgschaft 111/412 but I would expect to see 111 and not III.
 
thanks for the info Garry, don't know if they are roman numerals or not, anyway had a friend collector/ dealer examine it, says the HJ tag is original, as he has over 1,200 of these Nazi training rifles & compiled a book on them "Training Rifles of Third Reich Germany" whatever that man says you can take to the bank.
 
Oh, I don't mean to say or insinuate that the plate is fake. I'm only really talking about the unit designation.

Everything held in local storage, including air and .22 rifles was required, in accordance with the HJ regulations that I have here, to be marked for accounting purposes. I'm guessing that your friend has seen many types of marking as the regulations don't specify exactly how units were to do this. Would you be able to show a few examples from his book as this is something about which I know very little?
 
I will speak to him soon, will see if he don't mind, he is selling his collection, several are HJ, SA, SS marked, @ Simpsons LTD Galesburg, Il., lots of never before seen pics of the HJ in that book, Best Regards.
 
hello, book has been out a while, here a few pics, Best Regards

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Just saw the older parts of your thread. Maybe it is still of interest.

If you have a close look you'll see that the "1" of 412 has a small serif (upstroke), as usual in the German-speaking world and beyond, contrary to the three single strokes before the slash.
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So I can definitely tell you that it is a Roman III (three), not a 111 number, and Garry was right with his assumption. Most likely it is Stamm III of Bann Aschersleben.
 

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Hello Jack , thanks very much, do you or any other members, have any info or photos of the above HJ group that go with my rifle? Best Regards
 
Bought a good book" In Harms Way" which mentions the Aschersleben Hitler Youth, excerpt: (
“Until I was fourteen years old I was a member of the Jungvolk,” recalled Rolf Richter:

I was a drummer in the brass band. I was in that group with body and soul. I liked it so much, and music was my life. When the transition [to Hitler Youth at age fourteen] was supposed to take place, my group leader said to the Hitler Youth leaders that I needed to stay in his group. I was lucky that I did not have to [advance].[4])
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from the book Aschersleben Branch, Leipzig District | Religious Studies Center
 
Has anyone heard of or have a copy of the book "HJ im Dienst"? The book is mentioned in the HJ chapter of Jon Speed's excellent book on Mauser small-bore rifles. There are a number of photographs of HJ youth and officers at small bore ranges. While Simpson's book covers all German small bore rifles, Speed's concentrates on the Mauser company rifles. I know the Simpson book is very good. I assisted in the section on German police trainers.
The Speed book is a worthy purchase if you have some HJ rifles.
 
Yes, I'm sure that many here will have it. I have a physical copy from 1940 but if you want to read through an earlier version dated 1935 I have it as a pdf (28MB). If you need a copy just let me know. There was also a version for the Jungvolk (Pimpf im Dienst), for girls (Mädel im Dienst) and there was also one produced for the Marine-HJ (Marine-Hitlerjugend im Dienst).
 
yes I have Speed's book & Robert Simpson's book, both very good books, had Robert sign my book, traded back & forth with him for years as he lives nearby, 2nd Mauser from left is listed in his book.

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