Value of canvas webbing belt and M4/49 HJ golden buckle.

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metho31

metho31

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Hi.
Can anyone telle what the price of these 2 nice items are:001_smile:

Regards.
Metho31.

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I don't like the belt, it looks new and
the size (hight) seems not to fit the metal part.
It does not look German to me at all.
But I am not a belt specialist and
I don't know about the buckles.
 
metho31 said:
The belt is good for sure.
Click to expand...
Thats one the most laid back chilling replies i`ve read for a long time :lol: Thats Cheech & Chong right there!! i dont care of the belts new or old, the reply wins it for me :bounce:
 
The belt might have a chance....but I don't think it's a HJ belt...looks more like a tropical example. One thing for sure is that the buckle and the belt were 'paired' at some point....who knows when. The buckle is a early transitional buckle manufactured by Steinhauer and Luck...it came out around 1933-1935 .....tropical belts were not around at that time. I can't help much with the belt...but the buckle is good. Price for the buckle would be around $80-$120 i would rhink.Cheers!
Rob
 
Thanks for the opinons mates.
-The belt is HJ. and a org. i know its not common, but i seen it a couple of times before, and i just found one at Bucheks shop, tagged.....

Admin Edit: links to his shop don't work as they require the viewer to login. Can you post the pictures here please?
 
Hello

No prob IMO with the black canvas belt. Is there a RZM on the belt clasp ? M4/22 ?
 
metho31 said:
Can you post the pictures here please?
Click to expand...
Garry, probably best if i do, i will be on borrowed time at his site anyway, so no need in two ppl getting booted ...

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Interesting belt there, have never seen one before. Mine are all leather.
When were these belts introduced? Is there something in the old paperwork about these?
Was the colour for HJ given as black only?
These belts must be extremly hard to spot on pictures.
Does someone have a picture of one of these in wear?
I am happy to learn about something new.
 
Isn't this buckle "nachträglich" (in retrospect) gilded.
It looks as such. It is surely not done during the Third Reich.
The buckle as such seems okay, but I sincerely doubt the
originality of the gilding, but who am I?

In no HJ regulation something is ever said about a webbing
belt in what color whatsoever. Maybe Garry can state this!
 
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Wim, were these HJ-canvas, or web belts around when you were collecting HJ buckles? or were you only interested in the buckles and not the belts? Is there any indication that lederzeug in general, was rationed like the other materials were from the middle of the war until the end?
 
I have never seen offered web belts for the HJ in those days
(between 1970-1985).
Web belts for the Africa Korps were, yes. I had some myself.

Leather belts for the HJ were offered with regularity, even those
with RZM tags, but the tags were always of another form as shown
with the black web belt.

During the war often Alkor was offered, a substitute leather. I have
seen belts from many layers of pressed paper, but I don't know if this
was for the HJ. Might be!
 
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Merci Wim, not knowing anything about Belts, i may just shoot myself in my only good foot here, But if nothing is known about these Web, or canvas HJ-belts, then how come they are "accepted" as OK today? What info are the Dealers and sellers, even collectors, of such canvas HJ belts using to know that they are real? Just because of the Tag? which as you say, looks different to what was used..... ? Could this just be a case of when something goes unchallenged, it becomes "accepted" by everyone, or by most as being a Legit item?
 
No, I've never come across anything which mentions canvas belts for the Hitler Youth. I'll look through the Vorschriften today but I have to say that I'm very doubtful that they will mention them.
 
Garry said:
No, I've never come across anything which mentions canvas belts for the Hitler Youth. I'll look through the Vorschriften today but I have to say that I'm very doubtful that they will mention them.
Click to expand...

As a matter of interest, what possible time frame are we putting on these? well not us, but those who "know" that they are real. 1942? or later..1944?
 
How does this RZM mark look to you Jo?

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It's a buckle from a different web belt which has a plastic tongue:

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Edit: I found this on MFF and the owner also describes it as 'HJ'. No further info was offered though.

Here's another thread on these which contains a good picture of the MM for comparison. I haven't found anything in the regulations so far on the use of canvas belts. The books I mainly use includes regulations which date to end-1942 so if there is no mention of canvas belts then we must be looking at the late-war period for an introduction date (assuming of course that the HJ did indeed use canvas belts).
 

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