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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL AYERST View Post
    CAN WE EXPLAIN WHAT THE SPECIAL HONOUR DAGGER WAS as noted above ?
    I can't provide more information on that Paul. I would assume that it was an HJ Leaders Dagger but that's just assumption. Missed a set of these on Mil 321 recently, gutted, didn't even see the auction or I would have secured them even at the price they sold for I would have paid more.

  2. #22
    THINK THE LEADERS DAGGER WAS JUST THAT AND ALL LEADERS WHERE ENTITLED TO WEAR IT THUS THE WORDING honour DAGGER SORT OF INTRIGUES ME AS TO WHAT IT TRULY MEANS

  3. #23
    As Darin says, this is the HJ leader dagger (HJ-Führerdolch). Here is an excerpt from the order Wim quoted on p345 of his book:

    dagg.jpg

  4. #24

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    Paul: HJ Führerdolch verliehen, means the dagger was granted. Not all HJ-leaders
    were granted to wear the leaders dagger. Maybe Garry has more about this!

  5. #25
    Yes, definitely an award as Wim says. The wording (and number of awardees) in the orders and other books makes it clear that they were not simply a constituent part of every higher leader's uniform.

    Here's an example of the text from one of those award lists showing the word "verliehen" (awarded, bestowed):

    führerdolch.jpg

    ...and a picture from the 1937
    OB
    :

    dagg2.jpg

    The HJ Führerdolch is noted in
    RJF
    Verordnungsblatt IV/27 dated 6th of Nov 1936 as being due for introduction but there are no lists of awardees in the 1937 Verordnungsblätter. They first appear in 1938 (Sonderdruck 5-38 2nd of May).

    I always see "1937" given as the introduction date on forums for these daggers but never an exact date /order. Do you know exactly when it was introduced Wim? I can't see anything in the Verordnungsblätter about them other than the 1936 reference I mentioned above. The
    VHB
    wasn't much help either.

    Edit: I said that Sonderdruck 8/38 contained the first lists of recipients but actually that was the second list. The very first list was published in Sonderdruck 5/38.

  6. #26
    many thanks for the clarification gentlemen that wording certainly raised some interest and actually gives more reverence to one of the most plain and understated dagger of the Reich

  7. #27

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    As Garry mentioned as published in the Verordnungsblatt from November 6, 1936 the HJ-leaders dagger was included as part for the newly introduced
    HJ leaders-uniform. The order mentions that the new parts will be gradually introduced and available (Zug um Zug). It was expected after six weeks to be
    available. This will have been delayed, as so often and surely for the dagger.

    In the Mitteilungsblatt der
    RZM
    from April 10, 1937 it was noted that in addition to the order from November 6, 1936 things were arranged. Here were
    noted for who the leaders dress was meant. Also was noted the new shoulder-boards had to be worn with the entry of April 1, 1937 as also the leaders buckle
    and leather-belt were.

    In fact it was literally said: leaders leather with buckle and dagger with hanger should be in the possession for the leaders April 1, 1937. The dagger was
    delivered to those that had received the document (Verleihungsurkunde des Reichsjugendführers) and was supplied by the organizational department.
    The new regulations was expected to be included with the new uniform-regulation.

    September 30, 1938 Sonderdruck 7/38 was published with a description of various types of uniform. The HJ leaders uniform remained as it was, but the
    golden leaders buckle and the brocade were a fact. The in 1937 annnounced uniform-regulation was newly arranged. The regulation was in fact provisional
    and final in 1938.

    Interesting is a note in the Mitteilungsblatt der
    RZM
    from December 3, 1938. Here it is said that the new uniform-regulation was published, but that a series
    of new goods that finally were sanction for the moment were not available. Which items this were was not said, but it is possible the dagger was one of these items!
    Last edited by wilhelm saris; 24th March 2014 at 02:26 PM.

  8. #28

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    Sonderdruck 8/38 as mentioned by Garry was from November 9, 1938. With this it was not that the first leaders daggers were granted.
    Page 17 (with number 3) mentions 31 names for the Reichsjugendführung and about 85 names for leaders in the various districts, mainly being Bann- and
    Jungbannführer. With Sonderdruck 5/38 from May 2, 1938 the first daggers were mentioned, as far as I can find. About 80 were granted.

    The earlier note from December 3, 1938 was apparently not meant for daggers, as it is for sure the first may have been granted earlier then May 1938.
    The "hot-shots" from the
    RJF
    were not included at all in the earlier mentioned special orders. They will have gotten their daggers earlier.
    Last edited by wilhelm saris; 24th March 2014 at 02:46 PM.

  9. #29
    Excellent. Many thanks for the info from the Mitteilungsblatt Wim. It makes things much clearer. Yes, good point on that May list (Sonderdruck 5/38) and the fact that some of the "big names" aren't listed. As you say, they must have received theirs earlier.

    I corrected my error in post #25 where I incorrectly said that Sonderdruck 8/38 contained the first list of recipients. That should of course have read "Sonderdruck 5/38" Thanks for pointing it out :)

  10. #30

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    This is what one has to conclude Garry. They had a place in the sun!
    A priviliged position......I hear them shouting: "give it too me. It's mine,
    mine, mine that precious thing!" Weren't they the "Lords of Things"?

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