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  1. #1

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    RZM 15 Hitler Youth honour badge

    Hello,
    this is the first posting of me in this forum. Please consider that english is not my native language and so I will make a lot of mistakes

    I want to show you an unusual HJ honour badge.

    It is heavy worn and the needle was repaired but I think still collectable.

    The member number has five digits.

    From my point of view the manufacturer mark is quite unusual. There is only RZM in one circle and a "15" in another circle.

    The manufacturer should be Ferdinand Hoffstätter, Bonn.

    best regards
    Pattex

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by pattex; 27th July 2011 at 07:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Yes, it`s a typical "15" in a round cartouce, only a very few makers that i am aware of used this small round cartouce for their Berechtigungsscheinnummer. (and on the HJ Gold only one)
    Downside apart from the bad needle replacement, is that it has been heavily cleaned and polished.
    Yes Ferdinand Hoffstätter did have the N° 15, but, Hoffstätter also knew how to mark his items properly, he was making before even the ZM days, never mind the RZM. These cartouce marked Hoffstätter badges are, IMHO made by a subcontractor, as are the early M1/70,M1/78 and M1/49 ones.

  3. #3

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    Original Hoffstätter.


    Jo, what make you think this badge was made by a subcontractor? Someone had to receive the first production of this award and I always assumed it could be Hoffstätter because of the transitional form of marking and the low serial numbers.

    Regards, Wim

  4. #4
    Wim, because hoffstätter just did not mark any badges like this. It is also not a RZM design, or a normal design found on other badges, so it`s unique. And seeing as hoffstätter had years of experience before, it cant be beginners mistake imo. so i tip on them being made elsewhere. I recon the first contract went to either Baumann or Paulmann & Crone. Although they (M1(78, and M1/49 are all from the same period.)
    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 30th July 2011 at 02:34 PM.

  5. #5

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    Never looked at it this way. It does make sense and could be a good explanation.

    Regards, Wim

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    Wim, because hoffstätter just did not mark any badges like this. It is also not a RZM design, or a normal design found on other badges, so it`s unique. And seeing as hoffstätter had years of experience before, it cant be beginners mistake imo. so i tip on them being made elsewhere. I recon the first contract went to either Baumann or Paulmann & Crone. Although they (M1(78, and M1/49 are all from the same period.)
    The transitional NSDSTB by Hoffstätter can be found with this marking as well. They are very rare but out there.

    Here's mine, unfortunately, because the markings are at the tip of the badge under the pin they are hard to capture with a camera, but both the odd RZM & 15 are there.

    Cheers
    Don
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Scowen; 31st July 2011 at 08:31 PM.

  7. #7
    Nice Don. Although if you remember my post on the Subcontractors a few years ago, i showed that both Party badges and HJ diamond badges were made by subcontractors so it could well be that a few of each were made by someone other than Hoffstätter, although it doesn't really matter, it`s just my opinion, and could of course be wrong.
    In any case, the markings are real, and so are the items that's all that counts. We`ll never get to the bottom of the sub-contractor issue , so it`s all "speculative" anyways

    I should change post 4, or elaborate on it, to Not include anything other than a diamond shaped badge, so what it means, is that at this time (1933-1934) hoffstätter was not using this small circle to mark other badges they made like the Round organizational badges or others that would require his transitional number being on them.
    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 31st July 2011 at 08:43 PM.

  8. #8

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    Hi Jo,

    I wasn't disputing that they could be subcontracted out, I just thought that I'd show that the mark was used on another design badge...

    Cheers
    Don

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Scowen View Post
    Hi Jo,

    I wasn't disputing that they could be subcontracted out, I just thought that I'd show that the mark was used on another design badge...

    Cheers
    Don
    Moin moin Don
    Yeah sure.
    Another thang to remember as well, is that some makers, even long time makers like Ferd. Hoffstätter, did do some pretty crazy things regarding markings, so maybe they did come from him, maybe the whole reverse design was not important as it should have been and was left up to the guy cutting the die.
    In any case, now we have two diamonds marked the same way

  10. #10

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    Thanks for showing that rare bugger, Don. First time I see this marking on another badge then the HJ Honour.

    Regards, Wim

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