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  1. #1

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    The HJ knife diamond - should it wiggle or not?

    I've read and heard stories from quite a few collectors about how they shake an HJ knife to see and hear if the diamond rattles or moves. If it doesn't move, they put it back down and move on, thinking the knife to be a reproduction. It is quite possible that people who do this could well be turning down a legitimate piece, because there is no rattle or movement. Some diamonds are very loose and rattle around, some have small movement, maybe from side to side or end to end, and others may have no movement at all. Whether there is movement or not on an original usually depends on how well the diamond has been fixed to the grip plate, and also whether or not the cutout on the plate which receives the diamond is a close and snug fit. Sometimes the work is sloppy in these areas, other times very well done.

    I x-rayed a couple of knives which show how HJ diamonds are fixed. The diamond has two long thin prongs which go through a slit in the plate, and are bent under to hold it in place. The first one shown here is poorly fitted, which you can easily see, causing the diamond to be very loose, springy when pushed and rattley (see how it protrudes slightly from the top of the grip plate, and is not seated on the bottom of the cutout). This one is from a later manufactured RZM marked knife.

    The second x-ray shows another diamond that has no noticeable movement at all. The cutout is snug, preventing the diamond any sideways or end to end movement. The diamond sits well on the bottom of the plate and the pins are bent well around the plate allowing no spring-like movement when pushed, but this is a genuine HJ knife, early manufacture with motto.

    If I come across an HJ knife with a no-movement diamond, I just look more closely at everything else. A diamond that doesn't move should not be taken as a sole determining factor when checking for authenticity, but as an indicator to scrutinise all the other details of the knife carefully. Check for signs of glue, damage to the rivets or on the plates immediately around the rivets. If these and all other details appear correct for an original, you may avoid passing up a genuine knife.

    Regards

    Russ

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  2. #2
    This is something that amazes me too Russ. It's one of those old stories that seems to have gained credibility because it's repeated enough times on forums. Impossible to argue with the great evidence you present in my opinion. Great info/research and thanks for posting it.

  3. #3

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    Hi Russ
    Out of the 6 HJ knifes i have 2wriggle 4 dont, , thanks for the info ,
    carrying out xray is a great way of determining whats going on.

    Over to you mike have you got a spare evening to check all yours out:D

    cheers steve

  4. #4

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    Great post. It does seem stupid to assume that all genuine diamonds are loose.

  5. #5

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    i'd put money on more solid diamonds than getting down and wiggling, but the statement that it must wiggle is definitley out there, at the war and peace show this year i sold a few of my HJs and gave some little lectures to prospective buyers, most had no clue, no previous HJs or they described what could most likely be very dubious repros.... nearly all looked stunned when i said dont not buy one because the diamond is solid... one guy even came back the next day and said a dealer had told him there were on springs and i was wrong....

    classic....well more for us eh

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by EVILMIKE View Post
    ... one guy even came back the next day and said a dealer had told him there were on springs and i was wrong....
    classic line

  7. #7

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    The diamond is on springs
    Who the Hell would believe that :laugh:

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatBateman View Post
    The diamond is on springs
    Who the Hell would believe that :laugh:
    Someone who's on something else!:tongue_smilie:

    I wonder who the 'dealer' was? He must have some interesting stuff for sale!

    Regards

    Russ
    Last edited by RussellM; 13th September 2009 at 12:26 AM.

  9. #9

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    I was amazed by the x-ray thing. I would say that the best test would be to x-ray a fake one as well and see how the diamond is fixed.

  10. #10

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    its funny how quick a comment can become fact with forums,its everywhere if the diamond does not wiggle it must be fake lol, the facts are when these daggers where put together some where done better than others and some have had an easier life than others, all this adds to if the diamond will wiggle or not
    wonder who originally came up with this brainwave
    stu

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