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  1. #11
    NOTE LACK OF DIAMOND IN GRIP and bulbous domed rivets common in post war fakes



  2. #12
    Great posts Jo. I will be working on our CMS page over the next days and will be populating it with threads like this one. I was always at a loss as to what to do with the 'home page' but I see a perfect use for it now

  3. #13
    Both in the RZM and UM they warn against using the Olympic symbol for, or in conjunction with Propaganda slogans. (See first December issue 1935) The stamp on the packet "Berliner Olympiade" is not only suspect due to the fact that the games were not known by this name, but simply as the Olympics, or Olympics in Berlin, but not the Berlin-Olympics.. the stamp is also the same as those on the 1935 Reichsparteitag Knives, and their mint bags, and their mint enamel pianted deep etched colorfull logos
    Why would there be a HJ connection with these olympic knives? Sometimes they are also advertised as DJ or BDM Olympic knives, wheres the connection? I think i read on either Snyders or Germanicvs-Terriblvs that they were "Handed out to the HJ who helped with the Olympics"? something like that? Is there any mention of this in a HJ/BDM/DJ book/paper/announcement?
    Maybe DJ because some of these knives are a little smaller? hence = for small boys with small hands?

    Paul, yes i know the man behind Lakesidetraders, and have done business with him a few times, purchasing two daggers from him in 2006 for approx. $5-6000.- (i dont remember any more) and of course the odd small item for myself from him recently as well. But like i said in This older post, relating to these bogus Olympic daggers, sometimes the good guys do get caught out, or, they go with the flow.

    So if we take LST out of this discussion for a moment, the fact that these are always available by the same dealers that have come to leave a bitter taste in our mouths over the years, and who a quick forum check will show that they are anything but reliable and honest, then when discussing these specific items, it`s only logical that their names will be included, after all, they are the culprits who are spinning the stuff onto the web and into collections, and recently onto a few good trusted websites.

    And when it comes to the actual dagger? well apart from the counterpart 1935 Reichsparteitag dagger, there are no others that show this abysmal deep etching with enamel paints.

  4. #14
    Actually, the following sums up everything i have said. Taken from this page.
    Quote: I know there is quite a debate about these, but all the big boys say it is legitimate. It is a mint example Blade has all the crossgraining. Colors are outstanding. During the 1936 olympics, there were sold as souvenir
    So all the Big Boys think they are real? So bloody what... how could this statement possibly add a shred of weight to the items authenticity? in fact it does just the opposite. And now we have another Theory, that they were not, as LST thought, never authorized and sat in a box until they were discovered... they were sold as souvenirs.
    Problems here are:
    The HJ Diamond was an Official, protected logo that was not allowed for usage on Souvenirs and only allowed to be used by those who had the appropiate ID to confirm that they were an HJ/BDM member.
    The Olympic logo is used together with propaganda, which was forbidden.

    You see where it`s going, Reputation takes precedence over fact.... sad really, but if you fall for the sales pitch, you deserve to get burnt IMHO.

  5. #15
    JUST TO PLAY devil's advocate here, could a reputable company with license not have thought ahead in anticipation of great sales and made up a batch of these. We know that small hoards are still showing up the DESCHLER HOARD FOR INSTANCE.
    In my talks with LAKESIDE he claims that there are period pics of the DJ style in wear through WITTMAN but not seen to this date



  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL AYERST View Post
    JUST TO PLAY devil's advocate here, could a reputable company with license not have thought ahead in anticipation of great sales and made up a batch of these. We know that small hoards are still showing up the DESCHLER HOARD FOR INSTANCE.
    In my talks with LAKESIDE he claims that there are period pics of the DJ style in wear through WITTMAN but not seen to this date
    They would have needed a special permit to use the five ringed olympic logo, thats a documented fact. (Makers knew this moths before the olympics) And no such dagger, permit application, idea, design is mentioned in any official source. (Whereas other bogus items are, more than once, even small mundane items)
    Why would they? what did the HJ have to do with the olympics?
    They would have needed to make a few and send them off for inspection/approval.
    Why would they have made a knife in this manner? when no other confirmed TR era dagger/knife has this kind of etching/painting? (except the same bogus 1935 Reichsparteitag dagger) in fact, no ther Olympic item shows this whacky style and primative etching.
    If they somehow made a few hundred, that were refused, not authorized, then why would they have sat in a box for the next 10 years and not have been recycled later when materials were in high demand.

    (Maybe they were hidden away in a loft and just laid waiting for one of these Big Boys to discover them?)

    To address the Deschler Hoard, well if you believe in such things, i personally dont. Peter Stahls 1969 books also mentions these bogus "Hoards" that turn up. Its a nice Tag line, especially when a reputatble dealer uncovers a Hoard.. you can read above in my last post, what the verdic is on these big Boys and their theories... If they say it`s so, then it`s so. Whenever i read a sales pitch like "The Big Boys all say it`s so.." then that is enough for me to automatically think something is not right. Why is it that these Big Boys can never support any claim with fact, but rely solely on their reputation and that of their friends ?

    Two points, on a seperate thread, i could prove that these big boys dont know much about history, even their smallest items are sometimes riddled with a cheesy description, small 40 buck tinnies described as The only one known, and prices at 400.- when the Tinnie catalog shows them at value 40.- maximum. and other stories on their sites of Hoards that are plain rubbish.
    Point two. I have older eMail conversations between the person who makes these Bogus Olympic daggers, and other big name (now desceased) who puchased a box from him. Probably around 25 mails between them, discussing not only these daggers, but also the new fake SS cap sets, and a few more items. The mails themselves make for a book, and will at some point be published or posted on a forum. In fact, some were even returned to him as they were "Too obvious that they were modern".

    And as far as any Photo from Wittmann goes, well look at his Friend Tom Johnson and the Published, factory Photos of the Birdshead dagger, which as it turned out, was a rather pathetic modern photo from James Atwood, yet on the basis of a published comment "here is a factory photo.." the community is supposed to automatically believe the Big Boys. Besides, No Period info, no Period mention, no evidence to support this dagger in the slightest, nothing at all, yet a Rumor that another big name has a period in wear photo?

    Always the same few Big Boys mentioned, and only these big boys have the photos, only they have the daggers, and only they know that they are real?...... naaaaah, i prefer to support my yeah or nay on actual research first, known facts and only after that do i dare to make assumtions... and if i do, then my assumtion would be based on fact and similarities and occurances... not based on what a Big Boy is supposed to have...

  7. #17
    I know this talk about period pictures has been around for some time and never a word from the so called owners even after being called out on various forums to which they will never post but still are there, I totally agree with what you say for most part. I do believe the DESCHLER HOARD did exist and have several pieces from it. I am most interested in thoughts on that plain so called dj knife



  8. #18
    Without having to clip and post any parts of the emails i mentioned (and i will one day when the time is right and i can squash 10 flies with one blow) i leave you with a little hint of where they "might" originate from.
    Link Here, and a snippet from the description below:
    PRICE: COLLECTORS, WE SOLD THE LAST OF THESE OVER A YEAR AGO to the disappointment of enthusiastic collectors. But NOW we have managed to acquire a few more, but they won’t last long. These even have the original issue bags with them! $1,600.00 while they last. Don’t hesitate!!!
    What the above does not mention, is that these "few More" will never all be sold, as the box of them is Huge.. check him out at the next Show, he always has a few with him. If you take a few, he will drop the price (i can back this up with his own words)

  9. #19
    yes that dealer is disgusting



  10. #20
    This Olympic Dagger, that the Big Boys all say is Real, well it`s a bit confusing, they all seem to agree that they are genuine, yet their stories vary..
    World Daggers take:
    During the 1936 olympics, there were sold as souvenirs.
    Lana Johnsons take:
    ..and was specially produced for a presentation gift to the young people from the N.S. Youth Organization, who did so much to help with this the grandest of Olympiads.
    Lakeside Traders take:
    these were all produced for the 1936 Olympics and were never authorized for issue. The result is they sat in a warehouse till after the war and then discovered and brought home.

    Three Big Boys, three totally different stories and totally different prices too, ranging from €500.- a pop at Milishop and Mr Haas, to $1600.- a pop in the USA. (and now $750 in Canada) Yes, indeed the Big Boys know that they are real, each one will have a different story as to why they are real and what they were made for, and also each dealer will have his own price, depending of course on how often he can sell them.

    Why do they sell? Well if i knew nothing and was just starting out, id see one up for sale at Mili321 or Milshop or Mr haas, as they always are each day of the week, and i would do a quick check on google, i would see one at Germanicvs for $1600.- and read on the net that all the Big Boys say they are real, and i would think that i was getting a bargain at €500.- They dont really look that bad actually, and i guess would apeal to some people, but to make up stories about them without being able to back that story up with a shred of proof, is not really the way the Hobby should be going. 50 years ago yes, today with this Knowledge-exchange per mail and web in a jiffy, and archives/Period facts at our fingertips, most definitely not.

    What still gets me, is this "most believe they are real" sales line by Lakesidetraders, this is just not true. It`s the exact opposite ! You can google old threads from many different forums in different languages, and read the exact opposite.. The only people who seem to think that they are real, are those who are selling them, and their sales pitch varies...considerably too.



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