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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    In HJ terms "Amerika" was the term for the 'continent' of north and south America. The complete list published in 1934* by the RJF department 'Ausland' was as follows (each was headed by a 'Landesjugendführer'):

    Europa
    Amerika
    Asien
    Afrika
    Australien

    The reference states that there were no triangles for these regions and that the only visible affiliation to the respective continents was through the use of coloured cord on headwear and insignia in the same way as was employed to identify the Oberbann on uniforms*

    *'Aufbau, Gliederung und Anschriften der HJ'. Published by Abteilung I. Reichsjugendführung 1934

    So, in 1934 certainly, an 'Amerika' triangle did not exist and I'm unaware of any regulation or reference which would lend weight to the assumption that these continent triangles ever did. If anyone has access to such a period reference/regulation it would be very helpful to see it.

    My doubts concerning these triangles are reinforced by the fact that there were many gatherings of overseas (volksdeutsche) members of the Hitler Youth in Germany right up to the outbreak of war and to a limited extent after this (examples would be the Deutschlandlager at Kuhlmühle in 1935 and the Wilhelm-Gustloff camps in 1939) but where are the photos of the 'Europa', 'Afrika' etc triangles? I haven't seen any certainly. We do however see 'Shanghai' (why not 'Asien'?) and 'Johannisburg' (why not 'Afrika'?) which seems to me to be very strong proof that these continent triangles are suspect.

    A further point I would make is that the highest concentration of volksdeutsche groups outside Germany with Hitler Youth formations was in Europe of course so if the 'Amerika' triangle is authentic then we should also see surviving examples of the 'Europa' triangles as they would by default be more common but where are they?

    In 'Hitler-Jugend - Soziale Tatgemeinschaft' Erich Blohm states that there were 312 Hitler Youth formations in 52 different countries. These groups encompassed 20,000 to 30,000 members. Where are all of the continental triangles? Are we to assume that only the 'Amerika' triangle has survived? I'm very sceptical...

    Just a quick edit to add that I would love to be proved wrong because the triangle would be a fantastic find if I am
    I agree on this, but where did they all go then. As for the continent of europe we all know the niederlande triangle, but with others did come up? any proof they existed? Me, for one, did not yet see any french onces come up or any other for that matter... pics would be nice of course.

    as for this one; I don't like the shine of the used material. It makes an impression of 'to modern to be true'.
    On the other hand, we do not have any to compare it with....

  2. #12
    Yep. I don't believe that the continent triangles ever existed H2 so for me this is the reason for noone having ever seen another 'Amerika' and that we have yet to see an 'Asien', 'Afrika' etc. For me the whole thing is totally illogical and this is supported by the period reference I mentioned so I'm firmly on the side of the sceptics as far as the 'Amerika' triangle is concerned.

    Basing a decision on whether this patch is authentic by looking at the thread, cloth etc is most definitely not the way forward in my opinion. If that road is taken we will yet again have an item which has no basis in the regulations/period literature/photographs but which is generally considered 'good' based on nothing more than the fact that enough people say that it's good.

    Having said all of that I would love to be proven wrong because that would mean the appearance of a photo or document proving the opposite of what I currently think.

  3. #13

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    Indeed, a period pic should take out all doubts on the subject. But what if there are none available? as you already said, Garry, there is no regulation on the subject to be found , so far.

    IF they are existing there has to be proof of them. So if any proof is out there, please share it with all to see.

  4. #14
    THERE IS MUCH PERIOD VIDEO around of the bund in action but have never noted any insignia on the youth uniforms



  5. #15

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    hello guys,

    I just had a look at the HJ-forum after a long time. It is a great forum.
    This Amerika-triangle intrigued me for years, since I saw the USA triangle,
    provided by a German collector, in collecting since 60 years. The triangle
    came from a sales-board. The German got many more items from the
    sales-board. I must admit I have never seen a photograph of such a triangle
    being worn in spite of the fact that HJ was one of my favorite subjects since
    the early 1970's.

    In a Dutch museum there is a triangle with the same lettering and the word
    "Nederland". This triangle is a fake anyway!

    Would the word Amerika have been used for the northern America's? I doubt
    it. Have a look in "Uniformen der HJ" from 1934, the second edition. Page 2
    shows a colored drawing from a white arm-patch with in the middle a black
    sigrune. Above the run there is the indication U.S.A. This patch
    was described as DJ Armscheiben der reichsdeutschen DJ im Auslande. It
    always was my guess with DJ they meant Deutsche Jugend! Nothing was shown
    or said about a triangle. When USA may have existed, it is of course quite
    possible that such a patch also may have existed with other country-names.
    I however have never seen one, not worn with a photograph.

    The magazin for the Amerikadeutschen Volksbund was published by the
    Landesjugendführung from New-York. The magazine was phrased as "Junges
    Volk". With some of the issues the sigrune was shown upon the front page. In
    one of the issues I do read DJ = Deutschamerikanischer Jugendring. I have
    seen only a few issues, the shown photographs do show no insignia and most
    often the right arm is visible. Not much evidence!

    This is just my thought and to inform you.

  6. #16
    Thank you for your comments here Wim. It's great to see you here, welcome.

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