Question about 'S' mark on HJ achievement badge

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Rudolf

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Hello every one, new to this site as of today.

I've been doing a good amount of searching to get an answer to a 'S' stamped on my Leistungsabzeichen der HJ. That search lead me here.

I believe that a 'B' means it's a re-issue for one that's been lost but have not found anyone that has seen the 'S'.


I'll try to upload some pix and would welcome any information you can share.

Thanks,
Rudy

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Nice to see you here Rudy :thumb:

I saw you ask the same question over on WRF, I am sure someone will answer here!

I have never seen this mark before so I am looking forward to the answer too :001_smile:

Nick
 
Welcome to the forum Rudy. Yes, B denotes a replacement as you say. We've had a couple of the S badges on the forum but unfortunately that stamp remains a mystery. I really hope we can get to the bottom of that one at some point.

Edit: missed something: Both your badge and one of the others is an M1/35 Wächtler & Lange, Mittweida. Might be something to look out for on other achievement badges from that maker.
 
Stickgrenade said:
Nice to see you here Rudy :thumb:

I saw you ask the same question over on WRF, I am sure someone will answer here!



I have never seen this mark before so I am looking forward to the answer too :001_smile:

Nick
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Like wise, thought I might see a few people here as well.
I'm not only new to collecting relics, I seem to be new at collecting places to acquire various information.

Garry said:
Welcome to the forum Rudy. Yes, B denotes a replacement as you say. We've had a couple of the S badges on the forum but unfortunately that stamp remains a mystery. I really hope we can get to the bottom of that one at some point.
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Well as long as you didn't say the S meant s**ty I'll hold on to it until some thing comes up.

Wonder if the few others and I compared the pieces like dates, #'s and manufacturers things could get narrowed down a bit. Would help in the search process I'm thinking.
What are the chances of finding the "couple" of others?

Thank you and I'll see what I can find,
Rudy
 
Just click on the word 'couple' in my post :001_tongue:

Can you see any traces of black finish on the needle of your pin? The black finish on a lot of the badges can wear off and the only way to tell that a badge used to black is by looking for traces of the black finish on the pin. With that in mind perhaps the S means Schwarz (black). The black badges were all silver-coloured before the application of the black finish of course so perhaps the S was there to show that only those badges were to be finished in black later on in the production process?
 
:zealand
Garry said:
Just click on the word 'couple' in my post :001_tongue:

Can you see any traces of black finish on the needle of your pin? The black finish on a lot of the badges can wear off and the only way to tell that a badge used to black is by looking for traces of the black finish on the pin. With that in mind perhaps the S means Schwarz (black). The black badges were all silver-coloured before the application of the black finish of course so perhaps the S was there to show that only those badges were to be finished in black later on in the production process.
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Thats plausible Garry
Nick
 
Garry said:
Just click on the word 'couple' in my post :001_tongue:

Can you see any traces of black finish on the needle of your pin? The black finish on a lot of the badges can wear off and the only way to tell that a badge used to black is by looking for traces of the black finish on the pin. With that in mind perhaps the S means Schwarz (black). The black badges were all silver-coloured before the application of the black finish of course so perhaps the S was there to show that only those badges were to be finished in black later on in the production process.
Click to expand...

I did click on it but at that time it was red and did nothing. Must be a newbe thing. :noidea:

No, there is no black and S could also mean Silber (silver) I guess.

So now we have 3 of these all numbered from 181006 (patrick1974) - 182745 (mine) and 184048 (arbuz)

All 5 numbers and starting with 18

All have the same pin style, not that I know if there was any different ones and mine along with the one arbuz has have the same maker mark. Can't see patrick1974 mark.

May I try to contact 'patrick1974' and ask about the maker or is it to soon? ... I'll try anyway.

Thanks again,
Rudy
 
That sounds like a good avenue to pursue. You could try contacting Patrick but he isn't active on the forum currently. If you come up with anything new please let us know. Always good to be able to solve a mystery.
 
I didn't find a "EDIT" button so I want to make sure you are aware of my mathematical skills by changing the part about 5 numbers to 6 ... as that's how many there are and I'm sure you all saw. :blush:

On to better things. I thought I saw a sticky that had dates associated with #'s ... can't find it.

Can someone tell me the approximate time frame the 180000 numbers associate with?

I'm thinking late on and that the 'S' stamp may have to do with Schadensersatz / Schadens.
Perhaps like the 'B' as replacement for lost the 'S' was tried out for lost due to death or missing. That would perhaps have gone to the family that lost a youth. We know the HJ were used as a final resource by all including the SS.

Millions of googles and more million 'S' to look for.
 
A badge in the 180000 range would have been awarded in 1941

Interesting angle Rudy. Do you think that 'Schadensersatz' would be the appropriate term to use for that situation though?
 
Garry said:
A badge in the 180000 range would have been awarded in 1941

Interesting angle Rudy. Do you think that 'Schadensersatz' would be the appropriate term to use for that situation though?
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Thanks for the year.
And to answer your question ... not really but it did come up in a search for the manufacturer. Just looking at anything related that starts with 'S'.

I have found a few references to 'S' for Silber and that's all fine and Dandy but always in context with real silver or the mark (800 S).
Also why would only a few be marked to be made Schwartz as you said or Silber? :confused1:
 
My angle is that the manufacturing process may have required what would later become black badges (after application of the black finish) to be marked prior to that stage.

If you look at the black badges the serial numbers have clearly been stamped before the application of the black finish. With that in mind, black badges were of course at one point silver badges but with a stamped serial number. To avoid any possible confusion between unfinished black badges and the silver badges (at that stage they would all have looked very similar of course) I think it logical that an S may have been stamped onto the badge at the same time as the serial number to ensure that only the S badges were later finished in black (Schwarz). Only a theory though.
 
In Military Advisor, Vol. 21, Number 2, is a "silver" badge with awardnumber 234809 and "S".

Manufacturer M1/101 Gustav Brehmer.

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Yes, the S could alternatively have been a mark for silver badges to separate them from black as opposed to separating black from silver. Works either way in theory. The high serial number on the badge you show would make the first scenario more plausible though due to the amount of black badges which were awarded when compared to silver.
 
Thank you cemifor. Putting something that was put into print gives this some credibility although we still don't know what it stood for.

I will take closer pictures of mine (I got a tad better at it :001_unsure:) and see about the front and reverse as in the text but I'm pretty sure that is what we shall see.

I'm still unable to figure out any reason, be it marked for silver or schwartz or whatever, why there are not many more out there.
I see that as we look harder one pops up now and then. If even there were only a thousand ever made by now some collectors would have run into them and surely one or two would have put them up for sale.

The new number range and maker has set us back some I believe.

Very confused,
Rudy
 
Why does the pic add 'credibility'? It's just another badge with an S :) Or did you feel that your badge might have been a fake (because of the S) before you saw Henrik's picture?
 
Garry said:
Why does the pic add 'credibility'? It's just another badge with an S :) Or did you feel that your badge might have been a fake (because of the S) before you saw Henrik's picture?
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I may have had that thought in the back of my empty head.:h
 
Well I have found one more and have sent e mail to the owner for a possible explanation.
 
Here's a silver HJ achievement badge from WAF Badges & Awards Table, with "S"

Award number 232416, manufacturer M1/101 Gustav Brehmer

Seems to be made of bronze with silver obverse.

(Price: 40 Euro + shipping)

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