LIBYAN Gebiet triangle ?

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Joe B

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I have read that there were Italians and some Germans living abroad in North Africa during the 1930s and 40s . ( Merchants , Contractors , Land owners etc . ) It would make since that if they had their children with them , that there would have been some sort of organized youth movement . I saw this triangle on a Dealers site and have posted it for discussion .
I have never seen a Gebiet triangle like this one . The construction is really good , however ; unless there is solid evidence that this existed ..... I entertain doubts .

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I agree with Joe. The first clue is the misspelling of "Libyan". Saris and I discussed an example identical to this and he did not like it either. I believe asking price for this is around 600 Euro.
 
I've seen USA,China Schanghai and Cape Town South Africa. From a collecting point of view these foreign arm trangles are the hardest of the HJ/BDM insignia to find, probably because there were so few of them in the first instance and secondly because once the war started many of these youth units conveniently disappeared from view,especially in those countries that were not in sympathy with the German cause. So why not Libya in a written format ?
 
B-RAD said:
I've seen USA,China Schanghai and Cape Town South Africa. From a collecting point of view these foreign arm trangles are the hardest of the HJ/BDM insignia to find, probably because there were so few of them in the first instance and secondly because once the war started many of these youth units conveniently disappeared from view,especially in those countries that were not in sympathy with the German cause. So why not Libya in a written format ?
Click to expand...
Why not also Libya? ...:blink:
Turn to History first, and you will see that the Moon and star, (wrongly placed on this Triangle) do not fit in with the time period. Thats from the Ottoman Empire, which ended, along with the flag around 1910 if i remember. After that... well, i don't want to play the History teacher here, but a few minutes of research into the History of Libya, their Foreign occupation, flags etc will tell you straight away why this is a Fantasy item. Many One-off items can be quickly outed by doing a little background History check, which most only do after they have purchased.. greed i guess, the need to own that special piece.
Please tell me where you have seen a Cape Town Triangle?
 
The Kapstadt came up on a discussion about an 'Amerika' triangle which ran here and on WAF a while back. It was one of those discussions which makes me despair... no one has ever seen one, it's the only one.... it MUST be real!! The Kapstadt shown in the book is however only a drawing of an original which apparently is in a collection somewhere.

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I was raised in Cape Town, and spent 25 years there, also researching the AO that was in the now called area Bö-Kaap. A minute grouping of people. A handful really. Remember that South Africa was still under British rule until 1952 :uk I don't believe that the Kapstadt (why is it Hyphenated in the pic?) triangle is genuine at all and cant even see how it even "could be"
Yes there are also some small enamel badges that people have only seen 1 of and therefor they must be real. Sad, but a reflection that the collector still chooses to believe comparison, pictures and wild "if this and that then why not also xxx...." stories..
Hmmmm, Libya in English with an Outdated Ottoman Empire flag, and Kap-stadt in German, Hyphenated when the name Kapstadt was always one word..
A real treat for the Collector who wants that Special Item.
 
Just an point to think about: the flag with half moon and star was the flag of Kyrenaika, long time before 1951. So it would be possible that this flag was used in Libya in the 1930s.
 
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Hey, you changed your post, like completely.. no fair. No, i dont believe this moon and star would have been used on any German item back then, here is a link to the flag history of Libya.
Cyrenaica was the name of an administrative division of Itallian Libya from 1927 onwards, and you know what flag they used, the Italian Flag. Maybe you are confusing this, with the short lived emirate of Cyrenaica from 1949-1951?
Flag of Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Hello,

Here you have a picture of a girl from (Süd Afrika) Johannesburg.

Best regards



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Metallwarenfabrik said:
Hey, you changed your post, like completely.. no fair. No, i dont believe this moon and star would have been used on any German item back then, here is a link to the flag history of Libya.
Cyrenaica was the name of an administrative division of Itallian Libya from 1927 onwards, and you know what flag they used, the Italian Flag. Maybe you are confusing this, with the short lived emirate of Cyrenaica from 1949-1951?
Flag of Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Hello,

yes, I edited the post because I was not ready with my text. Bad mistake to write via iPhone :)
Here is an interesting source:

Bis die einzelnen Landesteile unter den italienischen Kolonialherren vereinigt wurden, gibt es Berichte von Flaggen aus den verschiedenen Landesteilen. So hatte Kyrenaika eine schwarze Flagge mit Halbmond und Stern, ähnlich der heutigen türkischen Flagge. Manchmal wird auch von einem weißen Rahmen berichtet. Möglicherweise wurde die schwarze Flagge bereits 1919 verwendet, als ein Emirat unter italienischer Oberhoheit gegründet wurde, das aber bereits 1920 wieder abgeschafft wurde.

from:
Flagge Libyens

Regards,
Sven.
 
Very nice Photo, but why would one say Südafrika and then the Gebiet Jo`burg...and yet the Cape Town one supposedly just says Kap=stadt ? Hyphenated and without Südafrika ? I guess, even if you showed me a Photo album with 100 Kap=stadt triangles in, i would still not believe it :001_cool:
 
Sven thanks for the link, but all it is, is a German version of what i already posted, and as you can read, they only used the Black flag in the area you referred to until 1920, then the Itallian flag, and the Black flag again from 1949, so i dont quite follow what you are getting at with the posts? In any case, my initial posting/point stands, Based Soley on the flag on the Triangle, the Libya Dreieck is a Fantasy item.

The only way you can explain this patch is to say: It was for a special branch of the HJ, who were living in an Italian Colony, but adopted the Ottoman Empire flag as they were all hardliners and anti Italy, and they also all spoke English as well, hence the Moon, star and English language :nono:
 

Hello,

This "Libya" patch has nothing to do with Germany and even less with the HJ.

That could be a modern scouting patch (?)

Best regards
 
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