HJ LEADERS SIDE CAP

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Paul Ayerst

Paul Ayerst

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JUST ACQUIRED THIS LEADERS SIDE CAP:canada1

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Hi Paul,

We had one of these up for discussion back in 2009 and at the time I could not find any mention of summer caps with silver cord in the regulations. That has not changed over the years so I'm wondering if the seller gave you any useful info that shows the item description to be true. Does anyone else have any more information on the addition of silver braid to summer caps?
 
In my opinion , It looks like a good cap , however ; it is non regulation if real .
 
Garry said:
Hi Paul,

We had one of these up for discussion back in 2009 and at the time I could not find any mention of summer caps with silver cord in the regulations. That has not changed over the years so I'm wondering if the seller gave you any useful info that shows the item description to be true. Does anyone else have any more information on the addition of silver braid to summer caps?
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Hello Garry,

All my apologies, but the thread you quotes has nothing to do with Paul's overseas cap.
Garry, what everyone here is asking, could we give a possible credibility to this HJ overseas cap?.
As for me, I prefer to remain cautious before throwing the stone.
I think the same as Joecool, I hope we will find more arguments in the near future.
We don't have any regulation at the moment but we have a photo, haven't we?.

Best Regards
Eric
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great feedback guys I did my due diligence on this one so far as consulting every reference book in existence with negative results. No pics no period data on its usage. Why I bought it is the material looks so similar to the leader uniform colour and material. It can be returned and will give more details once in hand and can have a close look at it. one alternate is could it be related to a school ? :canada1
 
WIDUKIND said:
Hello Garry,

All my apologies, but the thread you quotes has nothing to do with Paul's overseas cap.
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Of course it does. Both caps have a silver cord which I cannot see mentioned in the regulations or indeed anywhere else. Please read carefully what I wrote in this thread and the other one. I'm not disputing the caps themselves, I'm just interested in finding out what the silver cord means. The german forum I mentioned on the other thread states that the cap is for "Führeranwärter" and I assume that the seller of Paul's cap described it as being for a "leader". How do they know that? Do you understand me now?

I'm getting a little sick of being told "yes, yes, regulations blah blah". Firstly, we'd be lost without them and secondly I have never said that all items should be judged solely by the regulations because to do so would be rather stupid and I'm definitely not that...
 
So here we have a cap that appears good, but the piping is not in the regulations. Possibly added by an HJ leader or Anwarter during the period, but not addressed in the regulations. Sometimes in hand the only possible way to fully come to a conclusion with non regulation items for me. The regulations are very important in collecting and avoiding fakes, and so is hands on experience IMO.
 
Garry said:
Of course it does. Both caps have a silver cord which I cannot see mentioned in the regulations or indeed anywhere else. Please read carefully what I wrote in this thread and the other one. I'm not disputing the caps themselves, I'm just interested in finding out what the silver cord means. The german forum I mentioned on the other thread states that the cap is for "Führeranwärter" and I assume that the seller of Paul's cap described it as being for a "leader". How do they know that? Do you understand me now?

I'm getting a little sick of being told "yes, yes, regulations blah blah". Firstly, we'd be lost without them and secondly I have never said that all items should be judged solely by the regulations because to do so would be rather stupid and I'm definitely not that...
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Hi Garry,

Yes of course I understand what you mean and I am reassured when I read your answer.
 
Gefolgschaft said:
So here we have a cap that appears good, but the piping is not in the regulations. Possibly added by an HJ leader or Anwarter during the period, but not addressed in the regulations. Sometimes in hand the only possible way to fully come to a conclusion with non regulation items for me. The regulations are very important in collecting and avoiding fakes, and so is hands on experience IMO.
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Hello Darin,

That's the problem, how to explain such things to young collectors. It is not easy with the elders. lol
 
THE VENDOR has told me came out of a European collection and is trying to get me more info. Will post close pics when it arrives probably Monday. :canada1
 
Hi Paul,
I'm not surprised by the items coming from Europe and that are coming on the market right now. A lot of things never seen before.
Very interesting thread .......! :canada1
 
leader cap more pic

Hi guys it just arrived today and at first look find no reason to return it looks very good. One thing I like is they have applied a tanged badge probably a knife insignia for a good flat look and fit, and tangs do not come through the liner which denotes a more professional maker. Have a look and give me and the others your thoughts. I still wonder if it is from a school leader AHS or NPEA. :canada1

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The pronged type member pin was indeed used on caps. I've seen this in hand and have owned a couple that I personally had total confidence in.
 
Paul Ayerst said:
Hi guys it just arrived today and at first look find no reason to return it looks very good. One thing I like is they have applied a tanged badge probably a knife insignia for a good flat look and fit, and tangs do not come through the liner which denotes a more professional maker. Have a look and give me and the others your thoughts. I still wonder if it is from a school leader AHS or NPEA. :canada1
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Hi Paul,

When I see your photos, I do not see the usefulness of returning this overseas cap.
It is superb and I love it.

The silver piping is well of the period.

This kind of cap could not be worn by the NPEA leaders because the colors are not at all the same.

For information, it is impossible that the HJ rhombus was worn on the NPEA leaders sommercap because the high authorities of this institution would never have accepted it ...
I remind you that Heinrich Himmler and Baldur von schirach hated each other, hence the creation of AHS schools by Baldur von Schirach and Robert Ley to thwart.

I trust I was of some help !

Best Regards

Eric
 
THANKS for the info ERIC never knew that about them but can see why. And the cap is in my collection now for sure love it. :canada1Hope some more pics show up and or period files talking about it.
 
No doubt about the cap itself but if the silver cord is not mentioned in the literature that would be a worry for me personally. It very probably is old and has always been on the cap but I would want to know why a dealer and the other forum (as mentioned earlier in the thread by Garry) gave it a name that can't be found in the books. Did they just make it up? Whatever, a nice cap and hopefully info on the purpose of the silver cord may turn up at some point.
 
yes your comment is very valid it is certainly a private purchase and needs more research , but note Eric,s pic on page one showing these in wear by several leaders in an obvious summer setting. We always see the leaders wearing the peaked caps even in field training and IMO the side cap would have been a welcome relief from the bigger heavier peaked ones. Please everyone have a look through your photos and see if anything pops out one pic does not prove it. :canada1
 
I looked for more photos last days Paul, I have nothing more in the whole kit and caboodle at home. lol
 
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