Arbeiter-Jugend badge (20 sunrays - wrong N)

some more photos

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hi Hannibal74,

thanks in advance for your explanation.
You typed down some things that had already crossed my mind.
Somehow I think if this is a reproduction, why don't we find it in large numbers (like reproductions)
I can also imagine that wrongly beaten / cast badges have never been thrown away in the garbage in the past and have never been used,
but they remained in the factory / office and were still scattered after the war..

Now it is certainly not the most beautiful deutsche arbeiter jugend badge in my collection but rather a frankenstein..
I was on the point of returning it to the seller but I thought and still think he's ok because he feels/ looks period in hand.

So I plan to keep this frankenstein because it's my only one with 20 sunbeams for now.

I will also do my best to take nicer / better pictures of the badge with a decent photo camera
Well schuere... Just because you don't see a large number of a certain reproduction it does not make it an original. There are some "rare" reproductions of certain enamelled badges which are way harder to find than the original badge itself. I do follow your logical way of thinking but it's not always the case and it's not really a way of determining whether a badge is oroginal or not...

These unmarked variants do have some pretty crude and obscure designs...The manufactures who manufactured these unmarked badges did not have any license/permission to do so. There were not really any clear guidelines for the design of the die so I guess some manufactures made their own design based on badges shown in advertisements or maybe other badges they had seen. Anyway, It's a very nice original badge even though it's an oddball.

My comment about taking the badge of your hand was mostly meant for emphasizing that it's an original badge.

Hello Hannibal , thanks for a detailed report that is giving us more information. Usually people answer with "I don´t like it " or " this badge is bad " but
they do not tell us what makes up their doubts. As bertl59 said, the forum here is for discussion and all opinions and comments are welcome. Who of us hasn´t payed many Dollars for fakes ? Unfortunately the market is full of them . I am always ready to accept someone´s opinion even if it is contrarily to mine. And I let myself be convinced when an opinion or a advice is explained well. So go on feeding us with photos and details - I´m sure that all collectors will benefit from it.
Hi Clowdwig:)

Like I wrote in the end of my post, my comments were not meant to be harsh or offend you (or others) in any way. I've been collecting enamelled badges for a long time, and I was very lucky to get to know Jo Rivett years ago. Jo is a good friend of mine and he has been my badge mentor for years. However, Jo is retiring from the hobby, so it's not possible any longer to ask him whether a certain badge is original or not. That's why it's very important for me to make sure that we preserve and share his knowledge from the all of the amazing research he has done in the past 20-25 years or so...

True! It makes no sence to make a comment like "It's a fake" or "It's an orginal" for that matter...If enough "Parrots" gives a fake badge enough thumbs up it will eventually become an "original" because a lot of collectors are lazy and actually believe what others tell them instead of doing their own research.

Hello Hannibal74
thank you
for this exchange, the forum is also made for that.
Do you have an opinion on the "12" post badge?
Hi bertl59:)

Sorry! To be honest I don't know? I never had this particular variant in hand and I don't know of anybody else who has examined it🔬 It sure is a very crude design but I do like some parts of the badge. The back and the attachment looks good as well but that's only "half of the badge". I would probably take a chance myself and get it but that's mainly because I'm curious and I would like to examine it.

You can't really determine whether a badge is original or not from a few images online unless you have or have had the badge in hand...or know it's an original for some other reason. Of course there are a lot of known originals, fakes and fantasy badges you know straight away but unfortunately this one is not one of them.