Are there photographs of Deutsches Jungvolk wearing the original uniform beret?

[BlackWatch1]

Are there photographs of Deutsches Jungvolk wearing the original uniform beret? I did an internet search and found that the beret was worn by the DJ and then it was replaced in 1934 but I cannot find any period photos with DJ wearing a beret. I just acquired this photo and repaired it. Photo was taken in Sankt Georgen im Schwarzwald.

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[Garry]

Hi,

There may be others but in post #1 of this thread you can see it being worn at the 1. Reichsjugendtag Potsdam in Oct 1932.

I did an internet search and found that the beret was worn by the DJ and then it was replaced in 1934

I just went through all of the RJF orders for 1933 and didn't find a specific reference for when the beret was discontinued and replaced by the black DJ sidecap. However, it must have happened in that year because the new sidecap is shown in two 1933 publications:

Die Uniformen der HJ
Aufbau und Abzeichen der NSDAP

The pic below shows the 1933 and 1934 editions of Aufbau und Abzeichen der NSDAP. In 1933 the sidecap has a slightly different design and came in brown and black. By the next year only in black and the design is now the more familiar version.

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[wilhelm saris]

To answer the question from BlackWatch1 about the wearing of berets. Yes, there are lots
of them to find, especially during the rally at Potsdam in October 1932.

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I agree with Garry. The exact date is in some ways wrapped in silence. Not so surprisingly as
regulations were not that well arranged yet (anyway 1932 or earlier).

The change from beret, as far as this headdress was worn, into another headgear form came
in 1932, to be a fact in 1933. In this year the well-known DJ-form was all over shown (see
"Die Uniformen der HJ" from 1933). Due to the incorporation of other youth organizations
other headdress-forms were worn also, like the Krätzchen (at left) and a visored field-cap
(Scharnhorst or a likewise organization), at right.

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Herewith I do enclose two parts of orders/regulations in which the beret and field-caps
were mentioned.

The beret still was in use in spring 1933, anyway during a meeting for DJ-leaders.
Uniform and wearing-orders were:

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This note does come from the "Verordnungsblatt der HJ", number 4 from March 10, 1933.

From "Adolf Hitler's Braunhemden" from 1933 is shown:

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Here are mentioned the field-cap in brown with the various districts colors (Gaufarbe,
which was as for the SA. A list exists from September 20, 1932), as well as a black
field-cap with white piping. It is said that occasionally a beret was worn, not having
any colored piping. A photo with two colored piping is shown in Littlejohn, page 157.

As mentioned, the black DJ field-cap (the form we all know) was shown in the earlier
mentioned "Die Uniformen der HJ" from 1933 and "Die Uniformen der Braunhemden",
started in 1932 and finished March 1, 1934 and described in "Bekleidung und Ausrüstung
der HJ" from January 15, 1934 (pages 60 and 61). Normally this cap did not have an
insignia, but photos do show the wearing of the Sigrune. No regulation mentions this.

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[BlackWatch1]

Thank you Garry and Wilhelm for the fantastic information you have provided here. This photo was in an album with another photo I have of men wearing the SS Kratzchen in the same area.

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[wilhelm saris]

Saw this great photo before. Perhaps at WAF?

From what area are they?
If I am correct they are from the Freiburg-area, as there
Standarte 65 was located. First this was in Abschnitt XIX
and later in Abschnitt XXIX.

 

[BlackWatch1]

Saw this photo before. Perhaps at WAF.
From what area are they?

I believe the photo was taken in the area of Sankt Georgen im Schwarzwald. Here is the photo's description:

Men of the 65. SS-Standarte Schwarzwald wearing the ultra rare SS Kratzchen with second pattern Totenschaedel. Possibly the only photograph in existence that show Allgemeine SS wearing this first SS field cap. This photo also shows that Officers wore the same type of cap. The two men on either side without jackets appear to be wearing SA style belt buckles. Sign says "Alte Garde Reserve hat Ruh 1929-34." Perhaps this photo is of the newly created Reserve Sturmbann in 1934, hence "Reserve hat Ruh" ? The "Alte Garde" might equate to the "Alter Kampfer" who joined the NSDAP or organizations under it before the Reichstag elections of September 1930.

 

[wilhelm saris]

Freiburg is indeed located at Schwarzwald, specifically in Breisgau.
The headquarters from 65 were at Freiburg. In Abschnitt XIX also existed the
numbers 62 (Karlsruhe) and 86 (Offenburg); in Abschnitt XXIX formerly did exist
79 (Ulm) and 63 (Reutlingen).

No, there are quite some photos known with SS men wearing this typical headdress.
I did show some in volume 4 from the series "Headgear of Hitler's Germany". To
find an actual original is another question. Most Krätzchen found are fakes.
Normally this type of headgear was worn by members from the SS-Sonderkommando
at Zossen (Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler) and worn between early 1933 and the fall of
1934. Since then, about late spring 1934, the SS-Feldmütze came into being!

Why the men from the photo do wear this headgear is not known to me!

 

[BlackWatch1]

Freiburg is indeed located at Schwarzwald, specifically in Breisgau.
The headquarters from 65 were at Freiburg.

No there are quite some photos known with SS men wearing this typical headdress.
I did show some in volume 4 from the series "Headgear of Hitler's Germany". To
find an actual original is another question. Most found are fakes.

I know there are a lot of photos with LAH men wearing this Kratzchen but I have found no images on the net with Allgemeine SS wearing it. Have you seen other photographs of Allgemeine SS wearing the Kratzchen? I've posted this question on other forums and come up empty. I love a mystery

 

[wilhelm saris]

You are correct, LAH yes; other not known much about it.
As far as I know and have researched the Krätzchen was
not an official headdress for the Allgemeine-SS.
I have send questions about this to some of my friends,
with a lot of SS knowledge. Maybe one day the mystery
will be solved!

 

[BlackWatch1]

To answer the question from BlackWatch1 about the wearing of berets. Yes, there are lots
of them to find, especially during the rally at Potsdam in October 1932.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

I agree with Garry. The exact date is in some ways wrapped in silence. Not so surprisingly as
regulations were not that well arranged yet (anyway 1932 or earlier).

The change from beret, as far as this headdress was worn, into another headgear form came
in 1932, to be a fact in 1933. In this year the well-known DJ-form was all over shown (see
"Die Uniformen der HJ" from 1933). Due to the incorporation of other youth organizations
other headdress-forms were worn also, like the Krätzchen (at left) and a visored field-cap
(Scharnhorst or a likewise organization), at right.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

Herewith I do enclose two parts of orders/regulations in which the beret and field-caps
were mentioned.

The beret still was in use in spring 1933, anyway during a meeting for DJ-leaders.
Uniform and wearing-orders were:

You don't have permission to view attachments.

This note does come from the "Verordnungsblatt der HJ", number 4 from March 10, 1933.

From "Adolf Hitler's Braunhemden" from 1933 is shown:

You don't have permission to view attachments.

Here are mentioned the field-cap in brown with the various districts colors (Gaufarbe,
which was as for the SA. A list exists from September 20, 1932), as well as a black
field-cap with white piping. It is said that occasionally a beret was worn, not having
any colored piping. A photo with two colored piping is shown in Littlejohn, page 157.

As mentioned, the black DJ field-cap (the form we all know) was shown in the earlier
mentioned "Die Uniformen der HJ" from 1933 and "Die Uniformen der Braunhemden",
started in 1932 and finished March 1, 1934 and described in "Bekleidung und Ausrüstung
der HJ" from January 15, 1934 (pages 60 and 61). Normally this cap did not have an
insignia, but photos do show the wearing of the Sigrune. No regulation mentions this.

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I thought I'd add this to this thread if that is ok.

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[Strumble69]

To answer the question from BlackWatch1 about the wearing of berets. Yes, there are lots
of them to find, especially during the rally at Potsdam in October 1932.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

I agree with Garry. The exact date is in some ways wrapped in silence. Not so surprisingly as
regulations were not that well arranged yet (anyway 1932 or earlier).

The change from beret, as far as this headdress was worn, into another headgear form came
in 1932, to be a fact in 1933. In this year the well-known DJ-form was all over shown (see
"Die Uniformen der HJ" from 1933). Due to the incorporation of other youth organizations
other headdress-forms were worn also, like the Krätzchen (at left) and a visored field-cap
(Scharnhorst or a likewise organization), at right.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

Herewith I do enclose two parts of orders/regulations in which the beret and field-caps
were mentioned.

The beret still was in use in spring 1933, anyway during a meeting for DJ-leaders.
Uniform and wearing-orders were:

You don't have permission to view attachments.

This note does come from the "Verordnungsblatt der HJ", number 4 from March 10, 1933.

From "Adolf Hitler's Braunhemden" from 1933 is shown:

You don't have permission to view attachments.

Here are mentioned the field-cap in brown with the various districts colors (Gaufarbe,
which was as for the SA. A list exists from September 20, 1932), as well as a black
field-cap with white piping. It is said that occasionally a beret was worn, not having
any colored piping. A photo with two colored piping is shown in Littlejohn, page 157.

As mentioned, the black DJ field-cap (the form we all know) was shown in the earlier
mentioned "Die Uniformen der HJ" from 1933 and "Die Uniformen der Braunhemden",
started in 1932 and finished March 1, 1934 and described in "Bekleidung und Ausrüstung
der HJ" from January 15, 1934 (pages 60 and 61). Normally this cap did not have an
insignia, but photos do show the wearing of the Sigrune. No regulation mentions this.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

Brilliant photos ! Do you still have these? I have a couple examples also, these is super to see these

 

[Strumble69]

I thought I'd add this to this thread if that is ok.

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This is an amazing photo @BlackWatch1
Nice to see that amount of different uniforms, perfect for this thread.

I have this pennant from Lutzow also

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[BlackWatch1]

Brilliant photos ! Do you still have these? I have a couple examples also, these is super to see these

I recently acquired this last photo and repaired it using digital software. Is Lutzow a location? Thanks.

 

[Strumble69]

It's not about the city. it is a commemoration of the 17th century 30 years war

 

[Jack]

Sorry to have to correct you. Lützow stands for Ludwig Adolf von Lützow, the founder and leader of a free corps in the German wars of liberation against Napoleon.
He probably still has a street named after him in almost every German city, even if the events no longer interest anyone much today, especially not officially. But not even in East Germany did the rulers lay a hand on these street names.

LÜTZOW

 

[Strumble69]

Sorry to have to correct you. Lützow stands for Ludwig Adolf von Lützow, the founder and leader of a free corps in the German wars of liberation against Napoleon.
He probably still has a street named after him in almost every German city, even if the events no longer interest anyone much today, especially not officially. But not even in East Germany did the rulers lay a hand on these street names.

LÜTZOW

Oh. a collector told me that, as I had to ask myself. Ill take your words over anyones Jack, so thank you also

 

[Jack]

Thank you .
You will find more names of military leaders from that time (early 19th c.) for a Jungzug/Schar or a Fähnlein/Gefolgschaft: Schill, Blücher, Gneisenau etc.
Early Germanic tribes like Sueben/Suebi, Markomannen/Marcomanni, Teutonen/Teutons, Goten/Goths were also popular as namesakes.