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Christopher Ailsby and the Golden HJ Honour Badge with Oak leaves.
- Thread starter WARLORD
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??Well the sky is also blue, so could also be HJ-Rocket pilots, HJ-paragliding-and-sightseeing-Battalion SS ? HJ-SS-Divers-Depth-charge-disposal squad ? The possibilities are endless really.
just look at the fake Chr. Lauer GPB ? great engraving on that, sadly though they buggered on the date
Thats actually a hebamme badge wreath with a normal party badge stuck on, hence the two rivet holes on the reverse and the double border around the party badge... it`s very bad actually, with a bad date on it, but very good engraving.
awarded numbers???
No "awarded" number etched into that one, and on any Solid gold ones either. No "awarded" number on the known Urkunden, only "Awarded" numbers engraved on the fakes, and wrongly used by the likes of Nimmergut and Ailsby to reach the conclusion that so many badges were produced..etc....I posted this last year on another thread but here is the reverse of an indisputably real badge. Presented to Agnes Miegel in 1939 and pictured in Patzwall's 2004 article in Militaria. Needed a break from looking at these horrible fakes
good point, I have always thought that only a fistful of these where actually ever awarded
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Gute Arbeit Jungs! Ich stand diesem (von Warlord gezeigten) Abzeichen schon immer skeptisch gegenüber. Jetzt weiss ich, dass mein Bauchgefühl richtig war 
I will always believe proper research first before i believe a hocus-pocus mix of fantasy and fake with a few originals thrown into a book and authenticated with nothing but opinion. Until any evidence to the contrary comes to light i`ll go with the Hüsken-Patzwall facts so far that point to a small, kiddie-size handfull awarded, without individual numbers, and only in solid gold. As far as replacement badges, or badges for "in-wear" goes, Hocus-Pocus, if you lost your gold version, you d have another gold one made for you by a jeweler. You only have to look at the Golden NSDAP ehrenzeichen, a much lower award, replacements were given all the time, third and forth sets are known to the same person, all the same, not in zinc or different somehow.... History and common sense should be enough here.
LOL, let them, if they cant read, they deserve nothing else. I hope it sells there as well for at least €4999.- plus Tax !
WARLORD already had his fun on WAF about them using a guy called Stan to help him Authenticate these silver gold-washed numbered badges.. I don't mind discussing anything, what i`m not about to do is forum-leap and play the keeper of lost souls, especially not on WAF, some of the users on there need to get burned, they need that like a daily drug. So it`s definitely found it`s way onto the right forum
where the opinions of a select few reign supreme over common sense. The "shutter-island" paradise of knowledge right there......
edit: Just had a look at who posted it on WAF. No wonder, and you are right, he did not read this thread at all, quote:
You will note that two of the people who have commented that they "like it" are supposed to be GPB experts...... i am glad they booted me off that forum, that way i cant be tempted to post a few home-truths.... It`s Shutter-Island all over again, that's for sure.
WARLORD already had his fun on WAF about them using a guy called Stan to help him Authenticate these silver gold-washed numbered badges.. I don't mind discussing anything, what i`m not about to do is forum-leap and play the keeper of lost souls, especially not on WAF, some of the users on there need to get burned, they need that like a daily drug. So it`s definitely found it`s way onto the right forum
where the opinions of a select few reign supreme over common sense. The "shutter-island" paradise of knowledge right there......edit: Just had a look at who posted it on WAF. No wonder, and you are right, he did not read this thread at all, quote:
LOL, what about the fake GPB on this thread with more than realistic etching? lol, and when you go onto the new owners site, you find the simplest of Fantasy badges, which are even debunked all over WAF as being bad, on his site for sale.
You will note that two of the people who have commented that they "like it" are supposed to be GPB experts...... i am glad they booted me off that forum, that way i cant be tempted to post a few home-truths.... It`s Shutter-Island all over again, that's for sure.
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people will keep posting this crap until they hear the answer they want as you say from the culprits who are pushing this junk. Was also temped to post on WAF but who really cares
It makes for great reading, and a few laughs. People who others praise as being "the people to ask" debating aspects of a badge that should not even be considered before acknowledging History and Facts first... shows me the actual status of their personal knowledge. Why Mr Ailsby chose to publish them as Original in 2010, some six full years after Patzwalls article in the Militaria magazine Debunking them with History and not hearsay, is beyond me, and IMO points to him actually having something to do with the production of these actual fakes, as he has been connected in the past before in having expensive badges reproduced, (read here) or maybe it is also an indication of the level of his personal knowledge ? Best not to even think about these two scenarios. Besides, we still find examples of Fantasy items being sold by all the Top Big nanes, every time we look, so you are right, even if anybody did care, what use would it do? best not to care. I`m off to make a coffee and not care now.
stay thirsty my friend, enjoy your coffee
Also, note the comment 'slugging Fest (sic)' by the owner of mdmilita ria. A euphemism in my opinion for 'bloody hell, they don't pull their punches over there do they?! Why can't they be polite and just accept everything the 'names' say. That's a much more pleasant way of conducting business'.
A forum which doesn't allow full and open debate and which uses the cover of 'netiquette' to effectively muzzle those who don't agree with the 'names' doesn't deserve to be called a forum.
A forum which doesn't allow full and open debate and which uses the cover of 'netiquette' to effectively muzzle those who don't agree with the 'names' doesn't deserve to be called a forum.
Hello,
I see you are referring to me now. All I have done is pick up a pin for the sake of curiousity because it was cheap and looked better then the tons of fakes i see. Yes, it does look like period etching to me, I run into a lot of items with this type of thing My use of the phrase "slugging fest" was not meant as an insult but I had 1 day tops to read that thread and it got rather difficult to follow as it turned into arguments. Truthfully , I have nothing into the pin I got and its been on the backburner of my mind. Slag me all you like if you must , I do not post here but use this site for a lot of reference because there is not much info on HJ items especially honor pins. I have 0 experience with these and all I have done is stated what I like about this one in comparison with what I have learned by handeling numerous other TR items, catch etc. Thats it, Iam not claiming its real or saying their are zink pieces for wear or anything of that nature. Please pardon me for being curious and buying something .
Dion
I see you are referring to me now. All I have done is pick up a pin for the sake of curiousity because it was cheap and looked better then the tons of fakes i see. Yes, it does look like period etching to me, I run into a lot of items with this type of thing My use of the phrase "slugging fest" was not meant as an insult but I had 1 day tops to read that thread and it got rather difficult to follow as it turned into arguments. Truthfully , I have nothing into the pin I got and its been on the backburner of my mind. Slag me all you like if you must , I do not post here but use this site for a lot of reference because there is not much info on HJ items especially honor pins. I have 0 experience with these and all I have done is stated what I like about this one in comparison with what I have learned by handeling numerous other TR items, catch etc. Thats it, Iam not claiming its real or saying their are zink pieces for wear or anything of that nature. Please pardon me for being curious and buying something .
Dion
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Hi Garry
Yes, you are right. I buzzed through the thread for a couple hours. Unfortunately in the midst of caring for a three your old, dealing with customers , updating close to 150 items and photographing -resizing - researching 20 belt buckles which are not even in my area of knoweldge and not sleeping for about 2 days doing this. Yes, you are right, it was a bit difficult to become a full out expert on honor pins with oakleaves.
Dion
Hi
If you let me know its a fake I will remove it. Please do not insinuate Iam a fake pusher. I have sold some really sought after pieces. To be truthful I cannot concentrate on every piece of TR mitlitaria and if a fake DE pin got through then it did, believe me I wasnt trying to risk my rep for 60 bucks or however much it is. I work on my own and it can be difficult to validate every piece I get, I get a lot of items in . I think i do a pretty damn good job at it .
Dion
If you let me know its a fake I will remove it. Please do not insinuate Iam a fake pusher. I have sold some really sought after pieces. To be truthful I cannot concentrate on every piece of TR mitlitaria and if a fake DE pin got through then it did, believe me I wasnt trying to risk my rep for 60 bucks or however much it is. I work on my own and it can be difficult to validate every piece I get, I get a lot of items in . I think i do a pretty damn good job at it .
Dion
Hi
Garry, I responded to your thread but see it needs approval before posting. My use of "slugging match " simply means as a beginner in these the thread became difficult to follow with arguments coming into play and so on. It is quite a hefty thread to digest in a matter of hours and as I noted , Iam extremely busy at the moment and DID try to digest it hours before I purchased the piece.
Dion
Garry, I responded to your thread but see it needs approval before posting. My use of "slugging match " simply means as a beginner in these the thread became difficult to follow with arguments coming into play and so on. It is quite a hefty thread to digest in a matter of hours and as I noted , Iam extremely busy at the moment and DID try to digest it hours before I purchased the piece.
Dion
Welcome to the forum Dion. Sorry about the delay on your post. Posts from new members which contain links are sent to moderation.
Let me explain my comments; you implied with your WAF post that you had read all 15 pages and that you had reached the conclusion that no useful information had been presented and that the participants were doing little more than arguing with each other. Effectively you dismissed the thread as being of little consequence for people interested in these badges. I disagreed with that because among other things Chris Ailsby has been shown to have been irresponsible in his assessment of the so-called 'variants' he shows in his book. I think that Jo has helped greatly to bring discussion of these rare badges further.
My other point was that there is an inherent problem with forum discussions which don't try to reach a conclusion and the WAF thread on your particular badge is an example of that. A couple of the participants on the thread indicated that your badge could be authentic but don't say why other than the opinion that certain external characteristics can be found on originals. That is unhelpful for the future reader in my opinion. I don't know whether that discussion has since developed further so my apologies if it has.
I hope what I wrote can now be better understood and that we can return to discussion of the badges.
Let me explain my comments; you implied with your WAF post that you had read all 15 pages and that you had reached the conclusion that no useful information had been presented and that the participants were doing little more than arguing with each other. Effectively you dismissed the thread as being of little consequence for people interested in these badges. I disagreed with that because among other things Chris Ailsby has been shown to have been irresponsible in his assessment of the so-called 'variants' he shows in his book. I think that Jo has helped greatly to bring discussion of these rare badges further.
My other point was that there is an inherent problem with forum discussions which don't try to reach a conclusion and the WAF thread on your particular badge is an example of that. A couple of the participants on the thread indicated that your badge could be authentic but don't say why other than the opinion that certain external characteristics can be found on originals. That is unhelpful for the future reader in my opinion. I don't know whether that discussion has since developed further so my apologies if it has.
I hope what I wrote can now be better understood and that we can return to discussion of the badges.
hi Gerry,
Thank you for the welcome, in reality I have been looking on here for years.
My comments on WAF are taken the wrong way about this thread, Iam kind of blunt and use strong phrases sometimes. Slugging match just meant it was hard to decipher what was going on with arguments and abstract theories being thrown in even involving other medals . I literally have 15 windows open on my computer and while reading this thread it got frustrating following it with side arguments and everytime clicking on a photo that it navigated away from the site. I actually did try and go through it a couple times but have way to much on my plate and still do at the moment. I returned to the thread this morning to go through it again to find me getting slagged off, so distracted again Iam LOL.
Bashing me as a dealer is not really fair, I do my upmost best to sell authentic items. If a DE pin got through I apologize. now I know about them, its noted. The pin is withdrawn. all that would have took is a simple email notifying me, not smearing it on the net.
Anyway Garry, thank you for the honest clarification. Off to work again but 2night with beers!
Dion
Thank you for the welcome, in reality I have been looking on here for years.
My comments on WAF are taken the wrong way about this thread, Iam kind of blunt and use strong phrases sometimes. Slugging match just meant it was hard to decipher what was going on with arguments and abstract theories being thrown in even involving other medals . I literally have 15 windows open on my computer and while reading this thread it got frustrating following it with side arguments and everytime clicking on a photo that it navigated away from the site. I actually did try and go through it a couple times but have way to much on my plate and still do at the moment. I returned to the thread this morning to go through it again to find me getting slagged off, so distracted again Iam LOL.
Bashing me as a dealer is not really fair, I do my upmost best to sell authentic items. If a DE pin got through I apologize. now I know about them, its noted. The pin is withdrawn. all that would have took is a simple email notifying me, not smearing it on the net.
Anyway Garry, thank you for the honest clarification. Off to work again but 2night with beers!
Dion