Christopher Ailsby and the Golden HJ Honour Badge with Oak leaves.

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WARLORD said:
Garry you might be quite right, the number is going to be low. I have 30 names confirmed, with the last award 30 Jan 1944. I believe originally it was the Good Doctor, Dr K who gave the figure to David Littlejohn.
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Ah, very interesting. Is "Doctor K" Dr Klietmann? Unfair then that Littlejohn should take the rap :)

Do you know whether von Schirach's Sonderstufe is in a collection? I'd love to see a good photo of that one.
 
I was going through some magazines from the Westfalen HJ and came across an article on Gauleiter Dr. Alfred Meyer which showed his presentation certificate for the award of the 'Goldenes Ehrenzeichen der Hitlerjugend' in 1938. On the right is the certificate in colour for Hauptbannführer Blaschke. Thought they might be of interest.

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Mr. Warlord!

Can you please show awerses or backs of all three Golden HJ Honour Badges with Oak leaves?
I have one and it looks similar to number one jo your photo.

BR,
Diro
 
The number is generally considered to be around 250 Paul but as was mentioned earlier that figure has never been substantiated. Chris Ailsby is researching the number awarded and has around 40 confirmed recipients so far.
 
Wim Vangossum said:
Jo, you have a nose to find those not-knowing weirdo's. :h


Regards, Wim
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Wim, not sure if thats a compliment ?:crying:
Well i think that videos like this are interesting, as they open up our eyes as to how some people Evaluate their items. Dont mean the Guy in the vid is a plonker, he is probably a normal guy like u and me. Just helps sometimes to see what tools are used by some. I dont know where he looked on the net though, as the BM marked badges are bad all over the net, as well as the coffin pin plate.
 
ther are a one for sale on herman historica in okt i havent seen any pictures yet bt i think it some urkund with it
 
railhouse said:
ther are a one for sale on herman historica in okt i havent seen any pictures yet bt i think it some urkund with it
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they had one in 2009. and mention that 400 were awarded.
Link Here

Hanna Reitsch - a Golden Hitler Youth Badge of Honour with Oak Leaf Border.

Gold and enamel, reverse gold fineness punch "585", wire attachment needle on a rounded hinge. Dimensions 35 x 20 mm, weight 9 g. Undamaged and in excellent condition.
Very rare - only about 400 were awarded.

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shame it doesnt show a reverse pic, quality is so diff to the fakes
 
I wonder why in solid gold? its clear that the diamond is a plain one, ie: messing and enamel, but yet the oak boarder is 535 gold? or stamped 535 gold...wonder why this never rubbed off on other high ns awards? because there are awards much higher than the HJ with oak leaves.... who knows, but the one i posted from HH sure does look nice though, compared to the others that started this thread off
 
I think you will find the badge linked to HH IS THE SAME AS ONE THAT STARTED THE THREAD. These can be found in gold or silver. There is a wear piece that is formed out of zink. Photos of these and other examples are to be found in my new book.
 
WARLORD said:
I think you will find the badge linked to HH IS THE SAME AS ONE THAT STARTED THE THREAD. These can be found in gold or silver. There is a wear piece that is formed out of zinc. Photos of these and other examples are to be found in my new book.
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Well it`s not really the same, the HH one is 535 Gold, and you can see that without having to look at the reverse. Yours look like another metal. If they are so rare, and only 200-400 were awarded, then you will definitely need to prove that with period facts and more than just comparison. You would also need facts on exactly how many were awarded, and a mention that they were available in different metals. I seriously cant see them going from solid gold, to Zinc with these?? In saying that, HH does sell a lot of Rubbish as well for huge amounts of cash. If the HH Solid Gold one is Real (someone thought it was and paid €5500.- for it) then you will also needs facts to prove why at least some, were made in Gold. Anything other than facts on these would be pure speculation and amount to nothing more that opinion. Doreen Phillip has a few repros up at the moment, pictured below is a very good one, the price is €35.- i think.
*If they were called Goldene Ehrenzeichen, and not like the honor badge just HJ-Ehrenzeichen, then that would suggest that they were in gold and not zinc ? After reading HH description where he says there were approx. 400 awarded and everywhere else it says 250 awarded, then there is obviously more info out there, or it`s the usual Misquoting from old Books mixed with a good portion of opinions.

Now, we have something else, they are two piece constructions obviously (if you say yours is Zinc, then that would have to be as you cant enamel on zinc) But anyway, it is clear by looking at all of them that they are 2 piece constructions, it would be impossible for them to be one piece anyway, now, look at how snug the HJ diamond fits into the base, no air gaps around the side like you normally find on the NSDAP Golden Party Badges. The HJ diamond is also solid, and would sit flush on the base, whereas the badge inlay for the GPB is made like a Tinnie, with the reverse full of air space and not sitting flush on the base.... yet, with these, and many other multipiece constructions, we never seen any "so called vent holes" drilled into the reverse to supposedly let out the steam/gasses created when soldering them together.:w00t: Nobody has picked up on that one yet...

I wouldn't mind one, and €5000.- seems fair, but i would want rock solid facts in front of me before i thought about parting with that much money.

Warlord, could you show us pictures of the reverses of yours ?

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I thank you for the reply. I have all three forms. Why some were made in silver and some in gold is unknown. The difference in the design is also an enigma. Stan has the same as mine but it is in gold. I have covered these in the new book with scans of the reverses. You should be able to get a copy from your local library and all your points will be covered.Originality on all the pieces is without problem. As to price? 5500
 
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WARLORD said:
... I have all three forms. Why some were made in silver and some in gold is unknown. The difference in the design is also an enigma.
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There is more period fact supporting the Alte Garde Prototype (only one known to exist) , than there is supporting the:
-Different materials and different designs of these, that are available in abundance from €25-€5500.- (Dont forget not only in abundance, but also in many many different designs too, the one you showed with the "different" leaf border is available in a few variations-see pic) You dont even need a caluculator to work out where this is going :001_unsure: This is something that could translate to any old item then, as long as the right "name" collects a few, and puts pen to paper they are OK? dont worry that there is no evidence to prove that they were made in different materials, or that the actual design differs considerably, and forget the leap from solid 535 gold to Zink... maybe throw in a few Trolitul (plastic) ones at some stage as well.
OK, originality on all three badges you show is without problem? yet you have no idea why they were made in zinc and gold, and you have no idea why the designs are very different? man, i dont want to sound sceptical, but this sounds like the SA Pelican dagger thread all over again :bounce:
I would really be interested in getting hold of a copy of the article in the book, and reading what is written about it/them. Anyone have the book?

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Garry said:
Welcome James,

Looking forward to the pics when you have time.
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18 months should be time enough?
Any photo would have to be really close detail to actually show the leaf border :sad:
 
WARLORD said:
The scans are too large to put on the forum.
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•For further discussion, could someone who owns this book (German Nazi Party Awards), please upload a scan of two of what is mentioned about these HJ badges with wreath border.

Hi warlord, i have two questions for you pertaining to these.

•The amount of 400 awarded, originally comes from Jürg Nimmergut does it not? yes it does. Now my question, why should we pay any Nimmergut "facts" or assumptions notice, when he has been wrong before on these high end items, especially the numbers awarded etc... In Klaus Patzwalls Das Goldene Parteiabzeichen reference book (2004) the Author takes Nimmergut apart piece by piece, and factually proves (and backs up with period documentation) that he was wrong about almost everything he wrote concerning this high end award, facts, numbers, awarding dates, etc etc...

•See pictures below. The following HJ Golden Leafy border badge is up for sale right now on Weitzes site, for a mere €3500.- Thats €2000.- below the HH price realized, although the HH badge was 535 Gold. (even so, the gold price is not that high that it would warrent an extra €2000.-, especially seeing as nobody knows why they were made in gold)
So my question to you, what do you think about this particular badge being offered by Weitze? Good, bad? 100% without doubt good? could be? cant be? Looking forward to your thoughts on this post.

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