Deutsches Jungvolk DJ flag with WWI design for review

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Alaster

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I've been toying with purchasing this flag for a while now, albeit expensive, I liked the design on the rear. I haven't found any info yet, but a gentleman on another forum said it is an early flag. I did end up buying the flag, and now would like a few opinions. If this was a bad choice, I can return it. I appreciate any info.

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It is an early fahne , I would think from the period 1932-1934 ....I can only assume that the design on the other side is connected to "jungstahlhelm" or something similar .
 
joecool said:
It is an early fahne , I would think from the period 1932-1934 ....I can only assume that the design on the other side is connected to "jungstahelm" or something similar .
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Thank you for your reply. I'm probably way off, but I took the picture to represent the Third Reich rising from WWI or the soldiers sacrifice in WWI related. The early helm, the grave crosses and the swastika rising in the rear.
 
joecool said:
I can only assume that the design on the other side is connected to "jungstahlhelm" or something similar
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I doubt the Jungstahlhelm has anything to do with this flag. They had their own flags.
Not even similar.
As did the youngsters, the "Scharnhorst". They also had their own flags.

"Jungstahlhelm":
First the form from the 1925 Stahlhelm-Handbook; the second photo is from about 1932.


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"Scharnhorst, Bund der Jungmannen":
The photo is dated May 26, 1933 just before their incorporation within the HJ.
The youngsters are from the Ortsgruppe from Worms.

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I have no idea what the shown flag from post 1 is.
I do not see rings to attach to a pole of for hanging.
 

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wilhelm saris said:
I have no idea what the shown flag from post 1 is.
I do not see rings to attach to a pole of for hanging.
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The seller did mention something about the hoist edge. Besides the clip, there are a few other loops and locations with missing clips. I should have the flag by Friday and will be able to get better insight to this question.
 
Prior to standardization the H.J. and D.J. used various flag designs sometimes with decorative motifs on the reverse as period photos show. I could not say for certain personally that this flag is good from the photos shown however.
 
Gefolgschaft said:
Prior to standardization the HJ and DJ used various flag designs sometimes with decorative motifs on the reverse as period photos show. I could not say for certain personally that this flag is good from the photos shown however.
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I should be able to post additional photos tomorrow. Are there any specific areas you'd like to see?
 
The flag may come with Wittman hair :w00t:

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I don't know about this one. It's weird enough to be authentic but yes, it certainly isn't a flag that conforms to known standards for DJ flags in the period literature. Having said that I can't see anything, based on the photos, that immediately stands out as a cause for concern. Seems to be one of those non-standard oddities that can be seen many times in early period photos and books.
 

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Please excuse the coloring, the light in my kitchen is like a sun.

Black light test was successful, no new fabric.

The first two pics show the end hooks. One is hanging on by 1/3 of it's loop, the other looks to be a repair with a different hook used.

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There are a total of 5 loops on the hoist end. This is one of the inner loops.

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Whole hoist side.
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The red circle denotes a loop that was torn out.
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One side of the flag (picture side) is two sown panels. Here is a pic of the seam (and middle loop).

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Various pics of the sewing.

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Pics of other side.

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Thanks for the new pics. I still don't see anything of concern and would still see this as a non-standard DJ flag from the period. Could you post the flag dimensions please?
 
Thanks. It has five loops which corresponds to the standard for the DJ Stamm flag and the Jungbann flag as shown in the 1933 pamphlet "Uniforms of the HJ" (see attachment). It isn't the latter flag and is more akin to the former as the reverse side of the DJ Stamm flag was permitted to carry a design as is the case with yours. Having said that, the dimensions of the DJ Stamm flag were 180x200cm and yours is clearly smaller than that. Flags for all sections of the Hitler Youth were revised and standardised in 1935 with yours belonging to the period prior to that. As I say, I have no reason to doubt that your flag is authentic. Early stuff shows great variation which is I'm sure why the standardisation of 1935 was thought necessary.

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Sorry about the quality of the picture. I took it quickly using my phone.
 

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I like this one personally. As Garry says a non standard flag but it appears to be legit to me. It should be somewhat heavy in hand.
 
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