Hitler Youth Navy??

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esu

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Hi, was offered this uniform shirt by someone who has been very reliable in the past. I have some nice HJ items so he offered me this navy looking tunic. Came with a Heer white summer jacket. Is this a figment of someones imagination?
Thx Cory

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Naval HJ tunic

Good Morning,

well, to start with: it looks not bad. It is actually a shirt. However, if you remove the blue collar from the tunic a RZM tag should become visible (if we are dealing here with an RZM shirt), where civil jackets and shirts have the manufacturer's tag as well.
If there's no RZM tag I would keep my hands off. There were dozens of Naval associations for teenagers and kids pre-33, that it could be one of them - they are worth next to nothing.
Some of these pre-33 shirts were further used in the begin of the Marine-HJ since there was no RZM in the early stages.

However, a well-made shirt. Maybe some of the other members has one for comparison and you could shed some light on the RZM tag-issue in the meantime.

Rgds

Daniel
 
....
Marine HJ said:
Good Morning,

well, to start with: it looks not bad. It is actually a shirt. However, if you remove the blue collar from the tunic a RZM tag should become visible (if we are dealing here with an RZM shirt), where civil jackets and shirts have the manufacturer's tag as well.
If there's no RZM tag I would keep my hands off. There were dozens of Naval associations for teenagers and kids pre-33, that it could be one of them - they are worth next to nothing.
Some of these pre-33 shirts were further used in the begin of the Marine-HJ since there was no RZM in the early stages.

However, a well-made shirt. Maybe some of the other members has one for comparison and you could shed some light on the RZM tag-issue in the meantime.

Rgds

Daniel
Click to expand...
 
Hitler Youth Navy

:001_unsure:Do you think that maybe this a winter uniform for a cadet that would be training on on of the sailing vessels of the German navy.I have some postcards that are showing training exercises.The boys would wear this uniform after he enlisted in the navy.What think ye.
 
esu said:
Daniel,
thank you for your reply. I dont have the shirt in hand so I'll ask about the rzm tag. I find it strange when you say its worth next to nothing, is that only if it doesnt have the rzm tag? And with the naval associations you mention were they an official part of the HJ? If not then why the armband? He's asking 300 euros as is with armband and pin.
Thx Cory
Click to expand...

Civilian naval type uniforms were a popular form of dress in the period. If this is a non RZM item it could possibly just be a civilian shirt with an armband and member pin added by anyone at anytime. In that case value would be the sum of it's parts, the armband, the pin, and then least of all the shirt. If it's an RZM shirt then value increases significantly.

Daniel has studied collected Marine HJ items in depth and I would defer to his experience with MHJ. If he says he would not touch it if it's a non RZM item, I would take his advice.
 
Gefolgschaft said:
Civilian naval type uniforms were a popular form of dress in the period. If this is a non RZM item it could possibly just be a civilian shirt with an armband and member pin added by anyone at anytime. In that case value would be the sum of it's parts, the armband, the pin, and then least of all the shirt. If it's an RZM shirt then value increases significantly.

Daniel has studied collected Marine HJ items in depth and I would defer to his experience with MHJ. If he says he would not touch it if it's a non RZM item, I would take his advice.
Click to expand...

I have every intention of following his advice,, thats exactly why I come to forums such as these to ask the opinions of those more knowledgable than I. I'm waiting to hear back on the rzm tag. I'm guessing by his comments that even if it is rzm marked the price is too high?
Cory
 
I think the price is not bad at all if the item is RZM marked. If it's not an RZM textbook item then 300 Euro is too much IMO.
 
The standardisation of the Marine-HJ uniform was laid down on 20.12.1934 and there is a section of regulations which state that there had been problems prior to that point with companies who normally made Kriegsmarine uniforms but who had also manufactured and sold non-standard (in terms of the cut and the cloth used) uniforms to the Marine-HJ. This could be such an item as it is clearly not a standard Marine-HJ shirt as has already been pointed out. I have nil experience with these items so I'm adding this as information only. The point made by the other members concerning the RZM tag is a good one and should ultimately, in my opinion, guide your decision on whether to go for this shirt.
 
It is not the Jungenschaftsjacke typ that was worn in the free German youth movements pre 1933. Still it looks like a period piece. Maybe from some naval organisation for kids or teenagers. As it has already been said in this thread there were several around in those times. And as explained before the RZM tag will make a price change of several hundred Euros. So let's wait for the sellers answer aboout the tag.
:001_huh:
 
MHJ shirt

Hi all together,

"thanks for the flowers" as we say in German if you were praised by others. Yes, as you can guess Marine-HJ is my special area but I must admit being not a good expert with shirts or trousers. My thing are the rather smaller items: cap tallies, hats, etc.
Well, I have to apologies: I was certainly too harsh with my statement 'next to nothing'. After having re-read my reply I'm a bit sorry for it. There was still a tailor some day who put effort in it to manufacture this shirt. And that's why it is still worth money as this is craftsmanship and not some mass-produced shirt from last week.
What I tried to say, and the other members have figured that I guess: the price makes a HUGE difference with the RZM tag. As Garry said, pre-34 it was like "Wild West" - everyone found something similar looking in the wardrobe or something was bought at some supplier by the leader of the group.
A basic example: a flat (Donald Duck style) hat, called Tellermuetze by the way, costs about 500 Euro if RZM. If it's a non-RZM cap you can never be completely sure whether it was some children's cap from the 20's and somebody just recently put a MHJ cap tally in and a pin to the frontside. Then it would be just worth the tally+pin.
Here it's exactly the same: if RZM, 300 Euro would be about right, if no RZM it's only worth (for us collectors) the HJ armband and the HJ pin, so significantly less the 300.
Keep us updated. I'm looking forward to pictures, if RZM.

However, a well made shirt, that's for sure!

Rgds and sorry for writing a so lengthy answer

Daniel
 
Garry said:
it is clearly not a standard Marine-HJ shirt as has already been pointed out.
Click to expand...

I agree with Garry here and Dani. The shirt is at best a KM or RM shirt with a spurious armband. It does not meet the regulations for the MHJ in any respect. Of course it is possible some MHJ boy got a KM shirt and used it, but for collecting purposes, it needs to at least match the regulations even if it does not have an RZM tag. IMO, the shirt if it did meet regulations would be worth almost the same as if it had an RZM tag.

Even as a KM shirt, it would be missing the various patches which again would hurt the value.

I am not sure if it could be a postwar BM shirt, but if the style did not change, it could be. Maybe somebody else knows.

That is the problem with these shirts. Without provenance or correct tags, you just do not know in regards to Navy shirts. MHJ had a unique design and while I am not saying "only that design", it is the design I would go with.

That said, I have only seen one MHJ shirt in a collection, they are that rare.

John
 
I'm sorry for not getting back sooner. There was NO rzm tag , only a tailor tag Im guessing with the name of the owner which the family removed for privacy reasons. They did the same thing to the Heer summer tunic. As it is I passed on this item as well as the summer tunic. I would like to thank all for their assistance!
 
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