Hitlerjugend first pattern membership badge (Arbeiterjugend)

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Firstly, thanks to Garry for inviting me here, and secondly, i know that this has been mentioned on many Forums, but i cant seem to find it mentioned here? maybe the searches i am doing contain the wrong words.. anyway, it concerns the amount of sun rays on the 1.st version of the HJ badge. Most are of the opinion that 19 sun rays is correct and everything else is suspect. There are in fact many variations of this badge, as it was of course produced in the "wild" period where it was [almost] every man for himself and rules did not apply.

I recently found a version on page 53 of the Richter Fahnenfabrik catalog that clearly shows 15 sun rays. The catalog is early 30`s.

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Welcome to the forum Jo. Good to see you here :thumb:

My personal opinion on these badges is that the '19 ray rule' is rubbish. As you say, this badge was being made years before the RZM and there are badges around with both less and more rays than 19 which are perfectly okay.


Pic 1: 20 rays

Pic 2: 15 rays (I'm not 100% sure on this one)

Pic 6: 23 rays




When I bought mine a few years back (since sold) I'm afraid to say that I went for the (comparatively safe) 19 ray version... :)

Pic 3 and 4: normal size

Pic 5 and 7: mini




Mini:

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Doh ! i meant to say that the picture in the 1. post shows a period badge with 15 rays, not 13 ! I dont believe i have seen 13 before. 15,19,20,21,23 yes. But i would think that amoungst the main makers who produced them, 19 sun rays was standard. I have a early HJ chain with pendant that also shows 19 (pic 4). I prefer to look at the construction of the badge, take really big pictures and enlarge them on the PC, then you get a feel for how the die was cut that made the badge, if fits in with the time period, looks like it was hand-cut or looks like it was modern machine milled. Plenty of the really early ones have no marks on the reverse at all, which is comforting a little, as the fakers "usually" always tried to include something that makes you think it is original, like an RZM mark (which these can have as they were made after 1932) or makers logo. The earliest fakes of these specific badges that i have seen, are the Morigi RZM Ges. Gesch marked ones.

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That pendant looks great.

I've attached blow-ups of my old badges if they are useful. If you need really big shots for your database just give me a shout Jo and I'll send via email.

I was looking through some early HJ magazines and came across some info which may put a much earlier date on the introduction of the HJ Arbeiterjugend badge. As I understand it, current opinion on these badges suggests that they began to be produced in 1930 but I noticed some advertisements which appear to be showing the Arbeiterjugend pin may have been in use as early as 1929.

Attachment 1 shows the front cover of the February 1929 issue of the magazine 'HJZ - Kampfblatt schaffender Jugend' and attachment 2 shows the advertisement for HJ clothing and equipment from the 'Reichswirtschaftsstelle der HJ' on its back page. As you can see there is a badge listed there. I have a few other HJ magazines from around then and the badge continues to be offered into 1930 which is the time when Assmann was apparently making these unofficially.

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That pendant looks great.


but I noticed some advertisements which appear to be showing the Arbeiterjugend pin may have been in use as early as 1929.

Attachment 1 shows the front cover of the February 1929 issue of the magazine 'HJZ - Kampfblatt schaffender Jugend' and attachment 2 shows the advertisement for HJ clothing and equipment from the 'Reichswirtschaftsstelle der HJ' on its back page. As you can see there is a badge listed there. I have a few other HJ magazines from around then and the badge continues to be offered into 1930 which is the time when Assmann was apparently making these unofficially.

Never looked into it, but if it is in a 1929 Magazine, then it will surely be from then and older, the vast majority, well to be honest, every one that i have ever seen (mag) contains old stock, with a few new bits and bobs added, but on the whole, no period magazine is helpful in determing the exact date of any pictured item. I also have early catalogs the show both the First HJ badge (Arbeiterjugend) and the new Diamond HJ badge together on the same page, both advertised as Hitlerjugend-abzeichen. The Arbeiterjugend is advertised as 'For the Cap' and the diamond badges as 'To pin on' there are also other badges in the same magazine for offer that were prohibited in mid 1932, along with later and earlier ones...

The Richter Catalog that i mentioned above is also a great example of a Old-new catalog, showing some items dated 1933-4, yet all the prices are still in Mark, and the vast majority of the items are from the mid-late 20`s.So i was think that catalogs were reprinted on a regular basis, with a few new products added here and there.

In General though, the period from 1925-1933 was chaotic, (despite the ZM ) if you read the first 50-60 RZM Mitteilungsblätter from Mid 34 onwards, you can see just how much was going wrong even then a year after the NSDAP took over. The RZM announcements from the start of 1935 are also a clear indication of how the RZM tried to stop the black market dealings, the illegal hawkers, the Fakes, frauds, the RZM representatives that were dealing on the side, the Jewish middle men who according to an RZM announcement were somehow involved in producing and selling inferior products (IMHO just propaganda)...

Also not to forget that they did not have television back then, and not every house had a phone, so any Communication of new items, rules etc would have differed greatly between the various Gaus and areas within Germany. Some would have been stricter than others as well i guess. It is though, a time period that really interests me with relationship to the NSDAP and their struggle to Control the NS items.
 
Yep. Definitely a very interesting period early on. I found one of those sheets you mention on my HD actually. As far as the HJZ is concerned I would love to find out whether the badge is actually the Arbeiterjugend pin. This magazine/newspaper was printed less than three years after the formation of the HJ and was produced by the Hitler Youth itself. The Reichsgeschäftsstelle was the HJ's official outlet for HJ uniforms and equipment at that point so I personally would view the publication as being a reliable source in this case but it is frustrating that the badge isn't actually shown.

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Garry, i know, if there are no pictures to go with the old Price lists and descriptions, then it gets confusing.
I would still like to know what badge is referred to in the 1926 Deumer catalog as the 22 and 15 mm versions of the Jungsturm in Enamel !!!
 
Ah, the Jungsturm badge. The stuff of lore. That discussion deserves a thread of its own. What do you think? :)
 
Ah, the Jungsturm badge. The stuff of lore. That discussion deserves a thread of its own. What do you think? :)
Sounds like a good idea :001_rolleyes:
I had a look again at the 1926 catalog, and found that the Jungsturm abzeichen i mentioned (in enamel) was actually pictured.
Never seen one before, and to me it looks more like a 1920`s Patriotic stickpin ?

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Ah, Hüsken has one of those currently Jo. I don't know the organisation myself though.

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Just a quick mention from the RZM announcements regarding this Old HJ badge. From Ausgabe 18, June 5th 1935. This seems to be the date that they were declared "Official" by the RZM and only allowed to be made from that date onwards on direct orders of the RZM (as all other official badges were) And of course, any made after this date will naturally have the RZM mark.
I personally have only ever encountered them marked in the "Transitional way" ie: RZM logo and basic RZM number with no MA or M1 prefix. Once again supporting the theory that the transitional period went on way past the beginning of 1935 as lots of people believe :sneaky2:

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Just came across a reference from the 'Institut für Zeitgeschichte, München' which states that the Arbeiterjugend badge first came into use in September 1927:

'9.1927 Das Abzeichen der "H.J. Deutsche Arbeiter-Jugend" erscheint'.1.

Whatever the actual document supporting this is, the location, Fa88/Fasz. 360, Bl. 4-7, currently covers totally unrelated stuff. There doesn't seem to be anything about the HJ in their archive actually so perhaps everything went to the Bundesarchiv at some point. Anyway, it gives us something to consider and I can now be pretty sure that the badge mentioned in the 1929 copy of the HJZ is indeed the Arbeiterjugend badge.


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1 Institut für Zeitgeschichte, München Fa88/Fasz. 360, Bl. 4-7.
 
Ah, Hüsken has one of those currently Jo. I don't know the organisation myself though.

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Perhaps this is the organisation Garry?

http://www.dasreich.co.uk/59_45.htm

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Bingo! That's the organisation Toby. Founded 1897 :thumb: Not to be confused with Gustav Lenk's Jungsturm Adolf Hitler of course.
 
Bingo! That's the organisation Toby. Founded 1897 :thumb: Not to be confused with Gustav Lenk's Jungsturm Adolf Hitler of course.

Yes, I can just about make out (from my angled photos), gegrundete 1897. I still have the newsletter. Unfortunately, I can't think where I've put it!
 
Would you mind if I added your picture of the the title page to this thread Toby?
 
Would you mind if I added your picture of the the title page to this thread Toby?

Not at all Garry. I was simply too lazy to save my files and took the easier option of posting the link.
 
I have 2 editions of HJZ from 1928 and in the adverts it advertises an HJ Badge from the 'Reichswirtschaftsstelle der HJ' in Berlin.
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