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- Apr 7, 2010
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Hey guys....as per requested, here's my HJ Leader's buckle. No belt to go with it...it's my only leader's example. It's made of tombak and though worn, you can still make out the maker marks.
There are a lot of repros out there - most having the M4/116. I've also heard that ALL HJ leaders with these markings are a repro cast...not 100% sure on that one.
Mine is a C.T.D. (Christian Theodor Dicke) and was one maker who is known to have had the contract for these. For those of you who know David North, he's a political buckle collector. He only considers three makers for this buckle - but also states that there is a chance that the M4/116 is legit. Just odd that these 116s started showing up about 10-12 years ago.
Me? I'm not sure - but the material and construction of this example - along with the M4/22 markings makes me quite comfortable with it.
Here's what David had to say:
"As far as originals are concerned, I have seen examples by:-
M4/22 Christian Theodor Dicke, Lüdenscheid
M4/46 Wilhelm Schröder und Cie., Lüdenscheid
M4/119 Eugen Schmiedhäusler, Pforzheim
There are probably more manufacturers than the above trio in relation to the HJ Leaders buckle.
In relation to the fakes and ignoring for the moment the M4/116.
Dicke and Schröder are definitely faked and possibly (to my knowledge unconfirmed), the Schmiedhäusler.
The 119 is a super buckle and anecdotally, it has been suggested that the fakers chose 116 as at a casual glance, this number could register as 119 !!
Anyhoot - thought I'd share his thoughts as he's a well known and respected buckle collector.......That said - here are some pics!
Cheers!
Rob
There are a lot of repros out there - most having the M4/116. I've also heard that ALL HJ leaders with these markings are a repro cast...not 100% sure on that one.
Mine is a C.T.D. (Christian Theodor Dicke) and was one maker who is known to have had the contract for these. For those of you who know David North, he's a political buckle collector. He only considers three makers for this buckle - but also states that there is a chance that the M4/116 is legit. Just odd that these 116s started showing up about 10-12 years ago.
Me? I'm not sure - but the material and construction of this example - along with the M4/22 markings makes me quite comfortable with it.
Here's what David had to say:
"As far as originals are concerned, I have seen examples by:-
M4/22 Christian Theodor Dicke, Lüdenscheid
M4/46 Wilhelm Schröder und Cie., Lüdenscheid
M4/119 Eugen Schmiedhäusler, Pforzheim
There are probably more manufacturers than the above trio in relation to the HJ Leaders buckle.
In relation to the fakes and ignoring for the moment the M4/116.
Dicke and Schröder are definitely faked and possibly (to my knowledge unconfirmed), the Schmiedhäusler.
The 119 is a super buckle and anecdotally, it has been suggested that the fakers chose 116 as at a casual glance, this number could register as 119 !!
Anyhoot - thought I'd share his thoughts as he's a well known and respected buckle collector.......That said - here are some pics!
Cheers!
Rob
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