HJ summer cap

[mkholst]

Hi guys

I have just won this summer cap on an auction (Ratisbon). I like it - do you ???

Is it a leaders cap (with eagle and metal diamond) ??? from what year ???

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Michael

 

[Albrecht]

I think, if I do not remember bad, it is from 1936 to 1938. And it is a good one yes.

 

[Kyle B]

Never known a bad thing from that site. I bought one of the HJ posters from that auction myself.
Nice buy!

 

[mkholst]

Hi Albrecht - thanks for your opinion.

I have just found a cap like mine on "Weitze" Allgemeine-HJ Schiffchen für Führer um 1938. Sandfarbenes Tuch, rote Paspelierung, mit gewebtem Schiffchen-Adler, emailliertes HJ Abzeichen, Größe ca.57. Innen mit Futter und Lederschweissband. Getragen, Mottenschäden an der Paspelierung,"

so it must be a leaders cap ???


Hi Kyle B

Congrats with your poster, let us see it

Michael

 

[Gefolgschaft]

The descriptor from Weitze is nice, but not exactly correct. The national eagle was worn on the summermutze during the period mentioned by Albrecht in his post. This does not denote HJ leadership at all really, it just dates the cap to the time period until the regulations changed.

In regard to never seeing a bad item on Klause's site, see the threads on this forum that show bad badges he has offered in the past, including Otto Hoffman member pins. Never depend upon any dealer or any seller 100%. Always do your research before spending money. That being said, the cap in this thread is a good period cap IMO.

 

[Druid]

Hi Albrecht - thanks for your opinion.

I have just found a cap like mine on "Weitze" Allgemeine-HJ Schiffchen für Führer um 1938. Sandfarbenes Tuch, rote Paspelierung, mit gewebtem Schiffchen-Adler, emailliertes HJ Abzeichen, Größe ca.57. Innen mit Futter und Lederschweissband. Getragen, Mottenschäden an der Paspelierung,"

so it must be a leaders cap ???


Hi Kyle B

Congrats with your poster, let us see it

Michael

Hello members do i see wool piping on the cap in the link ?

 

[Garry]

We touched on the matter of whether these were solely worn by leaders here but dependant on the time period, a summer cap in this configuration (metal badge, embroidered eagle and red "Hochrot" cord) could have been worn by a lower leader or a boy with no rank. The regulations show that between 1936 (introduction of the Lagermütze, later Sommermütze) and Sept 1938 the cloth eagle was definitely worn by those with no rank and those in the lower rank range.

On 30.9.1938, new dress regulations were issued. Again, the cloth eagle is shown as having been worn on the summer cap of those with no rank and by leaders in the rank range HJ-Rottenführer (DJ-Hordenführer) to HJ-Oberscharführer (DJ-Oberjungzugführer). However, I see a note (below) in a section of orders dealing generally with headwear that the cloth eagle was only permitted for those with rank.

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I don't see a date for the above order but it was still extant in 1943 so it must be an amendment to the Sept 1938 order. This change offers an explanation for caps with unpicked diamonds.

Jan 1940: cloth diamond introduced for the Sommermütze

So with all of the above in mind and going by the regulations, if this cap shows no signs of an unpicked cloth diamond then it would be legitimate to describe this both as a leader cap and as a cap for someone with no rank and that the cap dates to before Jan 1940.

Hello members do i see wool piping on the cap in the link ?

You do
I know that you know about this Druid but here's a link to a post discussing the use of Spiegeltuch for the red strip:

Hitler Youth HJ summer cap (HJ-Sommermütze) | Headgear[/HIDESHOWTOGROUPS]

 

[mkholst]

Thanks for all the comments guys - special Garrys very fine documentet conclusion . And to Gefolgschaft, I agree with you, and therefore I am doing my final research now on this forum, I have 14 days of withdrawal from the buy. I just would not bother the forum if I did not get the cap. I bid on the cap because I myself mend it to be original, witch now is confirmed.

Now I am a happy collector and only waiting to have my new cap in my hands (together with a 1. model Navy dagger, which I also got)

Michael

 

[Kyle B]

In regard to never seeing a bad item on Klause's site, see the threads on this forum that show bad badges he has offered in the past, including Otto Hoffman member pins. Never depend upon any dealer or any seller 100%. Always do your research before spending money. That being said, the cap in this thread is a good period cap IMO.

Whoops, my bad, yes I recall finding a post about that so I retract my comment.

Hi Albrecht - thanks for your opinion.

I have just found a cap like mine on "Weitze" Allgemeine-HJ Schiffchen für Führer um 1938. Sandfarbenes Tuch, rote Paspelierung, mit gewebtem Schiffchen-Adler, emailliertes HJ Abzeichen, Größe ca.57. Innen mit Futter und Lederschweissband. Getragen, Mottenschäden an der Paspelierung,"

so it must be a leaders cap ???

Hi Kyle B
Congrats with your poster, let us see it

Michael

Thanks, it is unrelated I know, but I grabbed this one.

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[Garry]

Thanks, it is unrelated I know, but I grabbed this one.

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Hi,

would it be possible to see a bigger shot of the document please?

 

[Kyle B]

Hi,

would it be possible to see a bigger shot of the document please?

When it arrives, I shall get a high res photo of it for you.

 

[wingman15]

very cool piece,i love the diamond on this

si

 

[mkholst]

Hi guys

Now I have the summer cap in my hand - I like it very much. See pic with "unfolded eagle" which gives a better look at it.

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I have also enclosed a pic of the way of fastening the diamond - 2 splits. I had expected a needle like on the membership badge. It is by the way stamped with RZM and M1/105.

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Michael

 

[Druid]

Great Result

 

[Gefolgschaft]

A correct cap diamond and not just a member pin added to the hat. Congratulations on a nice cap.

 

[mkholst]

Hi guys

I have had some troubles to find out how to display my new sommermütze, until now I have only had steelhelmets to display, can be seen on the photo.

One of my friends have some white heads, and he told me that they could be bought in a firm who sells displaythings a.s.o to shops, 2 heads incl. postage (inside Denmark) - about EUR 25,-.

I think it look nice - se pic where it is in its natural environment.

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Michael

 

[Albrecht]

Here you have for next time some more cheap

 

[mkholst]

Hi Albrecht

I must say that you are right 2 heads will be EUR 10,- !!!!. I have noticed this, if I need more heads, which I really hope to.

Michael