RJF Wachgefolgschaft Baldur von Schirach

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Poloberst

Poloberst

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The below quote came from THIS post in a thread on the Walther pistol.

Garry said:
The first photo was taken at the 1938 Reichsparteitag. The sentries are from von Schirach's Wachgefolgschaft. They will have been wearing a sleeve triangle with "RJF Wachgefolgschaft" and the cufftitle "Baldur von Schirach".

Edit: here is one of the sentries on the other side of the podium (source: akg-images.de)

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So this unit was von Schirach's bodyguard? I checked the list of RSD units guarding Hitler and other party/government leaders and he was not listed. Was the Wachgefolgschaft continued as Axmann's bodyguard unit. Any specifics as to personnel, numbers, weapons, organization? When von Schirach moved to Vienna, he had no RSD unit providing security.
 
The Wachgefolgschaft had a largely ceremonial role as opposed to purely being bodyguards. I do have some regulations regarding selection criteria, duration of service, uniform and unique insignia and I will endeavour to precis and post these tomorrow.

As regards Axmann, there is one order that I have here from Gebiet 9 Westfalen dated May 1940 (referenced within it is the RJF bulletin from February) regarding the selection procedure for the Wachgefolgschaft. It states that each Bann was to provide one candidate from the HJ-Streifendienst. Of these, the order states, those ultimately selected for the Wachgefolgschaft would serve until August 1941 (at which point new members would normally join). With Axmann taking over in May (and officially from August) this means, in theory at least, that Axmann retained the Wachgefolgschaft. However, the Wachgefolgschaft is not listed within the list of RJF departments from 1941 so it would appear to have "died" with the departure of von Schirach. I will look into this but I'm not the only one on this forum who is able to answer such questions so someone may be quicker.
 
Okay, here's what I have on the Wachgefolgschaft in my documentation:

I don't see anything in the RJF orders (RJF Verordnungsblatt/Amtliches Nachrichtenblatt) between 1933 and 1937 that directly mentions either the RJF-Wachgefolgschaft or the Wachgefolgschaft "Baldur von Schirach". I first see the Wachgefolgschaft mentioned in clothing regulations from 1938 (Amtliches Nachrichtenblatt 7/38 dated 30.9.1938 on page 4 where mention is made of the trousers and boots that they wore and of newly-introduced headwear and the wearing of the HJ greatcoat. They wore special shoulderstraps for four ranks peculiar to the Wachfolgschaft (Organisationsbuch NSDAP 1943) although I don't know exactly when they were introduced.

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As far as the selection procedure for the Wachgefolgschaft is concerned I have a number of Gebiet orders from 1938 and 1939 showing the criteria as they were at that time. I don't see anything before that so perhaps 1938 marked some kind of change in the membership of and selection process for the Wachgefolgschaft.

Selection

Reichsbefehl III/38 dated 25.11.1938:

"The selection process will take place between 25.1.1939 and 10.2.1939. Successful applicants will join the Wachgefolgschaft on 1.3.1939. Applicants must fulfill the following requirements:

HJ Member
Testimonial from Bann/Jungbann
Police clearance certificate
Medical certificate clearing the applicant for very strenuous activities (guard duties, field exercises, sport)
Permission from parents
CV with two pass photos
Height minimum: 1.75m
Age: 18-19
Duration: 12 months minimum. This can be longer for the best performing members and may lead to a place with the SS, RAD-Wehrpflicht or full-time, paid position within the HJ.

Applicants are to apply through their Bannführer or Gebiet personnel office". Gebiet Kurmark added "good racial appearance" to the requirements.


The above is repeated, more or less, in orders from three different HJ-Gebiete and although it isn't mentioned specifically in any of them, an order from Gebiet Westfalen dated 30.5.1940 seems to show that the Wachgefolgschaft was made up of SRD members. In that order, Befehlsstelle "Überwachung" within the RJF requested personnel for temporary secondment to the Wachgefolgschaft for the period 1.8.1940 - 31.8.1940. Gebiet Westfalen filled its contingent of three with SRD leaders so I would think that the rank and file of the Wachgefolgschaft at this time, perhaps earlier too, was made up of SRD members only. The same cannot be said of the leader of the Wachgefolgschaft though as the following example shows.

Stammführer Hartmann.

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This chap became the commander of the Wachgefolgschaft in October 1938 and his CV does not show any involvement with the SRD. He joined the HJ in 1930 and eventually commanded both Stamm II and VI of Bann 67 having played an important role in the early formation and growth of HJ units in that area. He was also, as can be seen from the photo, the Bann standard bearer.

I'll keep looking through my stuff for more on this subject and if anyone else would like to add to the thread please jump in (y)
 

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The Triangle

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Garry said:
Okay, here's what I have on the Wachgefolgschaft in my documentation:

I don't see anything in the RJF orders (RJF Verordnungsblatt/Amtliches Nachrichtenblatt) between 1933 and 1937 that directly mentions either the RJF-Wachgefolgschaft or the Wachgefolgschaft "Baldur von Schirach". I first see the Wachgefolgschaft mentioned in clothing regulations from 1938 (Amtliches Nachrichtenblatt 7/38 dated 30.9.1938 on page 4 where mention is made of the trousers and boots that they wore and of newly-introduced headwear and the wearing of the HJ greatcoat. They wore special shoulderstraps for four ranks peculiar to the Wachfolgschaft (Organisationsbuch NSDAP 1943) although I don't know exactly when they were introduced.

You don't have permission to view attachments.


As far as the selection procedure for the Wachgefolgschaft is concerned I have a number of Gebiet orders from 1938 and 1939 showing the criteria as they were at that time. I don't see anything before that so perhaps 1938 marked some kind of change in the membership of and selection process for the Wachgefolgschaft.

Selection

Reichsbefehl III/38 dated 25.11.1938:

"The selection process will take place between 25.1.1939 and 10.2.1939. Successful applicants will join the Wachgefolgschaft on 1.3.1939. Applicants must fulfill the following requirements:

HJ Member
Testimonial from Bann/Jungbann
Police clearance certificate
Medical certificate clearing the applicant for very strenuous activities (guard duties, field exercises, sport)
Permission from parents
CV with two pass photos
Height minimum: 1.75m
Age: 18-19
Duration: 12 months minimum. This can be longer for the best performing members and may lead to a place with the SS, RAD-Wehrpflicht or full-time, paid position within the HJ.

Applicants are to apply through their Bannführer or Gebiet personnel office". Gebiet Kurmark added "good racial appearance" to the requirements.


The above is repeated, more or less, in orders from three different HJ-Gebiete and although it isn't mentioned specifically in any of them, an order from Gebiet Westfalen dated 30.5.1940 seems to show that the Wachgefolgschaft was made up of SRD members. In that order, Befehlsstelle "Überwachung" within the RJF requested personnel for temporary secondment to the Wachgefolgschaft for the period 1.8.1940 - 31.8.1940. Gebiet Westfalen filled its contingent of three with SRD leaders so I would think that the rank and file of the Wachgefolgschaft at this time, perhaps earlier too, was made up of SRD members only. The same cannot be said of the leader of the Wachgefolgschaft though as the following example shows.

Stammführer Hartmann.

You don't have permission to view attachments.


This chap became the commander of the Wachgefolgschaft in October 1938 and his CV does not show any involvement with the SRD. He joined the HJ in 1930 and eventually commanded both Stamm II and VI of Bann 67 having played an important role in the early formation and growth of HJ units in that area. He was also, as can be seen from the photo, the Bann standard bearer.

I'll keep looking through my stuff for more on this subject and if anyone else would like to add to the thread please jump in (y)
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Sorry for my ignorance, but what do CV and SRD mean?
 
Yeah, CV = Curriculum Vitae. SRD = HJ-Streifendienst. Am I being trolled?
 
Garry said:
Yeah, CV = Curriculum Vitae. SRD = HJ-Streifendienst. Am I being trolled?
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Say what? Hardly. I participate in quite a few forums here in the US, and Wiki notwithstanding, I rarely if ever see CV used. Obviously I am not familiar with HJ nomenclature and had no idea what SRD was supposed to mean. Was it a standard HJ abbreviation? Anyway, thank you for the explanations.
 
I should have put a wink smilie into my post. No offence was meant. As a Brit I automatically use CV but in the US the word résumé would perhaps be more usual.
 
So it was purely ceremonial, yet they wore sidearms. And no mention of pistol qualifications, though perhaps the need of police clearance related to the need for a pistol carrying permit. Were Dienstausweis issued to HJ officers? Perhaps a specialized one for the WGS (Wachgefolgschaft)? And as the war progressed, it was apparently phased out of the HJ service.
 
Well, I didn't say that they were "purely" ceremonial. I said that they were largely ceremonial and that they were not simply bodyguards. They will have qualified on the Walther (Pistolenklasse I and II) as mentioned here but I have no idea whether the Wachgefolgschaft carried small or large calibre pistols when on duty.

The police clearance certificate that I mentioned did not have anything to do with the pistol. It was simply a check on the prospective member's general conduct.

I have never seen a Wachgefolgschaft membership card and I don't see anything in the regulations about them. With this being an RJF-specific unit, I see very little on them in the regulations generally and I think that anything that goes into detail will have been published for internal use within the RJF in Berlin.

Yes, as I mentioned in the other post, it seems unlikely that the Wachgefolgschaft survived under Axmann for very long although I cannot say exactly when it ceased to exist. The disbandment of this unit will have been something ordered and carried out internally so there would have been no logical need to disseminate the information to Gebiet etc because it did not affect anyone other than the Wachgefolgschaft itself. This is likely the reason for me seeing nothing in the general regulations about it. This doesn't mean of course that there is no more specific information available of course but I personally don't have it.
 
Here my favorite portrait out of my collection. Wilhelm Roggenkamp.

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I think I've seen this topic before, but I can't find it.
And my question is, what color was the sleeve band? Brown white or black white?
 
Pimpf359 said:
I think I've seen this topic before, but I can't find it.
And my question is, what color was the sleeve band? Brown white or black white?
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I don’t think there are any examples that survived the war. For me it’s still a mystery.
 
Garry said:
Well, I didn't say that they were "purely" ceremonial. I said that they were largely ceremonial and that they were not simply bodyguards. They will have qualified on the Walther (Pistolenklasse I and II) as mentioned here but I have no idea whether the Wachgefolgschaft carried small or large calibre pistols when on duty.....

The police clearance certificate that I mentioned did not have anything to do with the pistol. It was simply a check on the prospective member's general conduct........

I have never seen a Wachgefolgschaft membership card and I don't see anything in the regulations about them. With this being an RJF-specific unit, I see very little on them in the regulations generally and I think that anything that goes into detail will have been published for internal use within the RJF in Berlin.

Yes, as I mentioned in the other post, it seems unlikely that the Wachgefolgschaft survived under Axmann for very long although I cannot say exactly when it ceased to exist. The disbandment of this unit will have been something ordered and carried out internally so there would have been no logical need to disseminate the information to Gebiet etc because it did not affect anyone other than the Wachgefolgschaft itself. This is likely the reason for me seeing nothing in the general regulations about it. This doesn't mean of course that there is no more specific information available of course but I personally don't have it.
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I didn't mean to misinterpret your statement. Sorry. As I wrote, to carry a firearm, the WGS members would have to have been issued a police permit to carry, unless authorized under the 1938 Gun Law to carry by authorization of a superior as were Political Leaders, whose authorization was noted on the reverse of their PL Ausweis. As you relate that very little information has been found on the WGS because it was an RJF specific group, is there any chance that some info might be uncovered in the party related files of WGS members to be found in the archives? Did most senior HJ officers maintain party membership after reaching the age limit?
 
Pimpf359 said:
I think I've seen this topic before, but I can't find it.
And my question is, what color was the sleeve band? Brown white or black white?
Click to expand...

It's a good question. The CT seems to be brown with white lettering on most period photographs but on the Roggenkamp photo above it seems to be black with white lettering. I've been looking but I can't seem to find any references/orders that specifically mention the colours. The cufftitle for the Wachgefolgschaft was definitely in use as early as 1935 though when members of the Wachgefolgschaft wore the "RJF Wachgefolgschaft" triangle and a Wachgefolgschaft cufftitle. I see this in orders from Gebiet Thüringen in November of that year which discusses insignia that could only be procured through the RJF in Berlin. Perhaps the appearance of the CT did change over the years but as I say, unfortunately I can't find anything that clearly states the correct colours.
 
Thank you for information do you maybe have more information on members of the WGS in particular roggenkamp?
 
Sorry, I don't.
CasLunter said:
do you maybe have more information on members of the WGS in particular roggenkamp?
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Unfortunately not. I found the chap in post #3 above purely by luck whilst searching for completely unrelated information. I have many thousands of pages of RJF orders and other documents but I have never seen any lists of Wachgefolgschaft members. The unit is hardly mentioned at all really. I would think that any truly useful information including names of past members etc would very likely have been destroyed or otherwise lost in the headquarters of the Reichsjugendführung in Berlin in 1945.

Do you know where Roggenkamp originated from?
 
Garry said:
Sorry, I don't.


Unfortunately not. I found the chap in post #3 above purely by luck whilst searching for completely unrelated information. I have many thousands of pages of RJF orders and other documents but I have never seen any lists of Wachgefolgschaft members. The unit is hardly mentioned at all really. I would think that any truly useful information including names of past members etc would very likely have been destroyed or otherwise lost in the headquarters of the Reichsjugendführung in Berlin in 1945.

Do you know where Roggenkamp originated from?
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Garry, did the RJF publish Verordnungsblätter as did the RFSS and OSAF? Are these the thousands of pages of RJF orders you mention? Where was the RJF headquarters located in Berlin? It was relocated elsewhere near the end as the bombing increased? Hauptamt Ordnungspolizei was relocated.
 
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