The Black Deutsches Jungvolk DJ buckle

Forums New posts
Just a little tidbit on the DJ buckle: when the official version with Siegrune was introduced the sole maker appears to have been Assman initially. Same went for the official HJ buckles at this time.

You don't have permission to view attachments.


"...the regulation buckles can be obtained through the firm of FW Aßmann u. Söhne, Lüdenscheid"
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
a subject which intrigues me since the early 1970's.
No notes to be found, which is a true fact. No document,
cataloque or whatever does mention it.
But wearing is stated: the regular, as well as smaller form.
Will there ever be a moment this "problem" will be solved?

You don't have permission to view attachments.


From what date is the "clipping". Curious to know as Assmann
was not the only manufacturer in my opinion. A quick look
learned me that leaflets from Overhoff from late 1935 offer the
new steel DJ buckle. And so do leaflets from 1936 from Wilhelm
Schröder, Witwe Hahne and for example Giesse & Schmidt.
They all also produced the HJ-buckle.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Hi Wim,

This clipping is from Nov 1933 (Westdeutscher Beobachter, HJ-Beilage). Clearly he wasn't the only manufacturer in later years but the clipping suggests that he was in 1933.

Also interesting is that the smaller 35mm DJ buckles were indirectly made redundant by this instruction because it states that the new regulation DJ was the same size as the HJ.
 
It is possible that for a moment the buckle was solely manufactured by
Assmann. The design for the HJ-buckle was from late 1933. The DJ-buckle
apparently a few months earlier. Assmann did not advertise with them, as
they did with the FAD or SS buckle.
In about May 1934 it was said in various magazines:
by the RJF the final regulations for the uniforms and equipment for the
HJ and DJ are finalized (endgültig festgestellt worden).
 
My first black DJ buckle, very happy :)

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
My new pair of 35mm and 45mm found together, presumably the same boy. The example i have of a good one in wear is off a period bookmark & book. I have the book it is advertising, and the photo is a scan from that book. Enjoy

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Chad Williams said:
Hello all
I have been asked to start an article on the black DJ buckle..

This very striking buckle (my favorite of all the youth buckles) is very rare and its purpose is still to this day unknown... It comes in 3 major variations:

#1 45mm black box with silver rune
#2 45mm silver box black rune
#3 35mm black box silver rune

As with all DJ there were wide design differences in respect to the rune shape and size in the first few years that it was being produced. This is also true of the black DJ and this shows that it was produced by quite a few different firms.

I have emailed a friend of mine and asked for permission to post a picture he owns which shows a HJ/DJ group and there are 2 kids wearing black DJ in the picture!! (the picture is in a post further down the page)

As of now, there is no known printed regulations as to the purpose of the black color.. I have heard it speculated that it was to be worn with the dark winter uniform..

I have owned well over 200 DJ buckles since starting to collect, but have had the opportunity to buy close to 800... and I have bought every black DJ I have ever encountered , and I think I have 10... that makes the black DJ 1/80 which I think is too high.. when was the last time you saw one for sale ????? Many people have never seen one for sale..

Here is the little we do know:

1. they are original, there are period photos to substantiate this
2. they were made in extremely small numbers
3. they were made by more than one manufacturer

Hopefully some day someone will stumble upon documentation pertaining to these that will once and for all give meaning to these wonderful and beautiful buckles!!



I had these pics in my computer, but will take soem new ones tonight as well... please let me know if you would like any singles or close ups of any buckles
thanks
Chad


You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
Click to expand...
I just picked up this original photograph recently. Enjoy

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
photos proof its wearing, but I have not ever seen one cataloque showing one of them in black
(and I have quite such material).
Nor is such buckle ever mentioned in a regulation, as far as I know. What is the reason for its
existance? Just a manufacturers variation?

An American "expert" tried to convince me in the 1970's it was a buckle worn when skiing. It
was just blabla to be interesting!! I told him, but he was as arrogant as one can be!
 
No, I don't see anything about black DJ buckles in the regulations either. As you know Wim, the DJ buckle is always mentioned as if there is only one version and therefore no need to distinguish between different types. There is nothing in the regulations that bans or discontinues the black buckle in favour of the standard type either.

Out of interest I just went through the issues of the magazine Jungvolk deutsche Jungenblätter for 1932 and 1933 and I couldn't find a single photo of any type of rune buckle being worn. I first see them mentioned in adverts at the back of the June 1933 issue "Jungvolk Koppel u. Schulterriemen" and again in Sept "Koppel mit Blitzschloss" but no distinction is made between a black version and a shiny version. The 1934 issues of the magazine show boys wearing the shiny DJ buckle either with slanted Siegrune or the more normal shape. No black ones. Not a broad sample of course but it's useful info.

By Aug 1933 we see the standard DJ buckle shown in official RJF publications once the uniforms of the various branches of the Hitler Youth had been standardised so logically that would be when the black DJ was phased out. How hard-wearing would the black buckles have been though? The rough and tumble could quite possibly have left the buckles looking pretty shabby after a while leaving perhaps only two options: repaint the buckle or remove the paint completely. The latter would be the easier option of course and I suppose if that happened enough then the black buckles would have disappeared organically obviating the need for an official order to stop using them. I don't know but these buckles are interesting items.
 
Garry said:
No, I don't see anything about black DJ buckles in the regulations either. As you know Wim, the DJ buckle is always mentioned as if there is only one version and therefore no need to distinguish between different types. There is nothing in the regulations that bans or discontinues the black buckle in favour of the standard type either.

Out of interest I just went through the issues of the magazine Jungvolk deutsche Jungenblätter for 1932 and 1933 and I couldn't find a single photo of any type of rune buckle being worn. I first see them mentioned in adverts at the back of the June 1933 issue "Jungvolk Koppel u. Schulterriemen" and again in Sept "Koppel mit Blitzschloss" but no distinction is made between a black version and a shiny version. The 1934 issues of the magazine show boys wearing the shiny DJ buckle either with slanted Siegrune or the more normal shape. No black ones. Not a broad sample of course but it's useful info.

By Aug 1933 we see the standard DJ buckle shown in official RJF publications once the uniforms of the various branches of the Hitler Youth had been standardised so logically that would be when the black DJ was phased out. How hard-wearing would the black buckles have been though? The rough and tumble could quite possibly have left the buckles looking pretty shabby after a while leaving perhaps only two options: repaint the buckle or remove the paint completely. The latter would be the easier option of course and I suppose if that happened enough then the black buckles would have disappeared organically obviating the need for an official order to stop using them. I don't know but these buckles are interesting items.
Click to expand...
Good evening all,

I have this original large beautiful studio portrait of this very young DJ wearing a DJ black belt buckle . The photo is still on its original backing card mount and now in a modern frame on my wall, sorry about the bad quality of the photo i seen this post just as am going out so i have taken the photo still behind the glass. I will post another photo later out of the frame which will be a lot clearer. I read Garry's post about the black DJ buckle being logically phased out in 1933, but see on my photo at the bottom right hand corner is a signature and dated 1934. The mystery continues.

Best regards....Ewan

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
In my defence, "logically" wasn't meant as "definitely" :) There was always a lag between the introduction of something and the manufacturers catching up. I remember posting a photo of a group of boys at a training course in 1940 who were still wearing pre-1938 shoulderstraps and headwear that had been phased out years earlier so there are always surprises but as this thread shows, these black DJ buckles really are a bit of a mystery. There is absolutely no doubt that they existed but it is odd that we can't find anything in the regulations about them.
 
Garry said:
In my defence, "logically" wasn't meant as "definitely" :) There was always a lag between the introduction of something and the manufacturers catching up. I remember posting a photo of a group of boys at a training course in 1940 who were still wearing pre-1938 shoulderstraps and headwear that had been phased out years earlier so there are always surprises but as this thread shows, these black DJ buckles really are a bit of a mystery. There is absolutely no doubt that they existed but it is odd that we can't find anything in the regulations about them.
Click to expand...
I luv it when posts like this come up lol, considering how organised and disciplined the HJ/DJ were, then you see photos as you mention with guys still wearing incorrect insignia years after they were phased out. Got to go, the new Mrs Fleming is sat in the car and hungry.
 
BlackWatch1 said:
I just picked up this original photograph recently. Enjoy

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
Click to expand...
I like the pennant & what buckle is that 2nd from right looks to be a cross?
 
"what buckle is that 2nd from right looks to be a cross?

I think that it is this one
You don't have permission to view attachments.

sorrry for the bad quality of the pic.

Michael :denmark
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Michael, I completely agree with you.
This is the so-called Turnerkreuz (Gymnasts' Cross) - the four F's - frisch-fromm-fröhlich-frei/fresh, pious, joyful, free.
That still exists today.
I have enlarged the picture a little...

You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
These black curls are simply beautiful...

I only saw it once in a flea market in Belgium in the 2000s. As there was no marking on it I didn't buy it. At the time I thought it was something fake because I had never heard of it...!!!
 
Hi All
Here is my Black DJ two piece buckle.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Eddieq said:
Hi All
Here is my Black DJ two piece buckle.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
Click to expand...
Might be just me but i dont like the look of this buckle. I know the 2 pronged DJ rune existed, but this i dont like. My opinion
 
Here are pictures of my DJ black belt buckle.
It is also a version with 2 rivets, but of a completely different type than the one in item 38 - see picture 2 - on picture 3 you can also see the manufacturer's name.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.


Michael :denmark
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top