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  1. #51
    I just can not fathom why the GOLDEN HJ HONOUR BADGE WITH OAK LEAVES is found in any other material than gold. With such a low issue how could this be and how could there be more than one maker. This is a high status award and even at wars end other such awards where of highest quality. There is a problem here and IMO any award but a true gold one should be avoided like the plague unless found with the full provenance and paper work to the individual which I think unlikely.


  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    These pieces are very rare, they are jewler made.
    Just so as we are on the same track here, what pieces are rare and Jewler made? all of the the 200-400 known Originals? Zinc Gold Silver and Messing ? .. all Jeweler made? (sounds like Germanicvs-Internationalvs`tag-line on his SS rings, and everything else ... possibly Jeweler-made. Before i say "bollocks" (which i probably will later anyway) i will see if there is any proof of this in your book, ie: a Period Jeweler reciept/offer/letterhead or period mention that the contact for these HJ Golden Leafy badges was given to a Jewler.
    [you do mean a Period German Jewler, and not a UK Jewler in the mid 1980`s ]
    I have a mate in the UK who posted me a copy of your book that you mentioned a few posts back, so after it arrives, and i have read the HJ golden leafy section/pages, i will post again.
    To say that you have never seen the weitze badge is not quite correct if you compare your Strange leafy boarder badge (middle one in post N°1) with his, you will note, that the HJ diamond, is, the same one used for both. (hmmmm) Quite a bit more to follow on this thread, after i`ve read your Chapter/article on these. I possibly have a nice surprise for you as well......

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    I think you will find the badge linked to HH IS THE SAME AS ONE THAT STARTED THE THREAD.
    Sorry, but this is far from acurate, your first badge is similar, but the leaf border is very different and basic, (on the Gold one at HH, each leaf has the grove or seam carved outwards from the middle, as leaves do, yours just has a basic middle grove and four straight cuts/groves with no detail or bend on them. 1 point of many that seperate yours from the 535 gold one) the HJ diamond is also a different one, and shows a very different pattern/stipling.

    Quote Originally Posted by operaman View Post
    I guess the only way to tell if is real or not is if you took it off the boy's dead body!
    They were not awarded to Boys/children. That would be hard as well, as the storiesyou hear today about Pieces being removed from "dead soldiers" etc, are made up, or at best, could never be confirmed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL AYERST View Post
    I just can not fathom why the GOLDEN HJ HONOUR BADGE WITH OAK LEAVES is found in any other material than gold.
    If it`s writen, it is so :closedeyes: although, (but keep it quiet) i`m with you on this one, 100%

  4. #54
    WELL for once I am very concerned with what has been purported to be real here and to have it in writing is of even more concern especially without any factual data to back up the claims just hearsay and speculation so far. There are folks on this forum who possess large amounts of period data and there has been no one come forward to give any history to these odd variations a point which gives me even greater concern.



  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL AYERST View Post
    WELL for once I am very concerned with what has been purported to be real here and to have it in writing is of even more concern especially without any factual data to back up the claims just hearsay and speculation so far. There are folks on this forum who possess large amounts of period data and there has been no one come forward to give any history to these odd variations a point which gives me even greater concern.
    Paul, this is why i wanted to have a look at what this book contains before continuing with this thread and doing a few experiments. I have the exact same badge as weitze is selling for €3500.- at the moment, and intend on cutting it up for a look-see

  6. #56

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    I read with much interest your points. Possibly the word Jeweller made is not the correct nomenclature, but one that is commonly applied to very professionally made pieces. The first pattern that was shown has the different leave construction. Produced in gold with separate high grade enamel and fixed by two small rivets. This is the form that is shown as awarded and on the citation. Again I state the second form is slightly larger, different leave construction. Separate HJ emblem with no rivets. This form comes in real gold, silver gilt and zink. There are no makers marks, on either type.

    As to originality of the pieces well the first could have been made by a Jeweller in any Country in the 1980. But I think this is not the case. A very nice period piece. Lots of provenance.

    So as they say you pays your money takes your chances.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    But I think this is not the case. A very nice period piece. Lots of prov.
    This is why i really need to read your book/info on these before i make my next post, as i dont know what Provenance there is, yet. If it`s anything like the Provenance stories that have been used in the past, and continue to be used to sell/authenticate scarce items, then it should be a giggle.
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    So as they say you pays your money takes your chances.
    No, on a small item that "could be" yes, on Iron Cross`that nobody can really be sure whats original any more, yes or maybe, if you are willing to continually throw pennies away and Hope that the items are real. With High end, scare items like these Oak leafed HJ badges, a comment like..pay the money & take the chance is lunacy and gives some insight already as to what i am expecting to be confronted with in you book. Time will tell, maybe i`m wrong, and look foward to reading the article on them.

  8. #58

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    Again thank you for your thoughts. Giggles you may get, individual provenance on an item you won't. Publishers space would not allow. Hopefully clear full colour photos you will. From these one would hope you would get an impression of the pieces. If still unsure then I extend a cordial invitation to visit and inspect the pieces in hand.

    The comment, "So as they say you pays your money takes your chances" also is a humorous response and one used by many in the antiques world.

    I illustrate this by using the example of the Norwegian Front fighters badge constructed in zink. The story, came back in 1945 by British Airman, vet bring back, don't buy the story buy the piece. In hand looked correct, smelt right, construction OK. Counter from Norwegian experts, remake 1947 for veterans. OK, still holding onto, "you pays your money takes your chances", excellent book comes out, upholds the fact only made in silver. Last year 2010, a researcher found in the Official Norwegian archives an order dated 1945, 1000 pieces made in zink. No the "1947 re-strike" is period and far more rare than the silver pieces.

  9. #59

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    This badge is for your comments.

  10. #60
    I should hopefully be getting the book to read in the next few days. Would you mind if i hosted a few scanned pictures of the article(s) on this thread? what with copy writing rules & regs, you never know

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