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Some people believe that the small knives with the diamond on the scabbard were carried by DJ boys and some don't. I don't believe in them personally and I thought I'd share some timeline and general information.
The only knife carried by the DJ and HJ according to regulations was the 'Fahrtenmesser der Hitler-Jugend und des deutschen Jungvolks' and this is the standard knife we all know. The carrying of any other type of knife was forbidden by regulations dated 30.10.1936 and was mentioned again in an order dated the 19th of August 1938 which announced that the 'Blut und Ehre' knives would no longer be manufactured. There is no mention of any special knife for the DJ and of course there is also no mention of the 'BDM knife'. The latter is very probably a term coined by collectors in the old days struggling to find a term to describe an item they could not otherwise identify.
The 'Fahrtenmesser der Hitler-Jugend' remained the only knife carried by the the HJ and DJ up to and including 1943 which is the last regulation shown in the period book I'm using to source this information.
Would these small 'DJ' knives have been introduced at this relatively late stage of the war? I have no proof one way or the other for the period after 1943 but I seriously doubt that they were and until I see photographic evidence of a DJ boy wearing a strange small knife with the diamond on the scabbard I'll be viewing these knives as nothing more than either souvenirs made for for GIs or souvenirs made during the period.
Edit: a further thread on these knives from 2012: Let's talk about the 'Deutsches Jungvolk knife' and the 'BDM knife'
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I agree with Garry on this one.
Yes i agree too
there are plenty of people who argue that they have picked these up from vets, which may be true but that does not mean they where made prior to 45 souviners where being made for vets as soon as the war finished out of lft over parts and that is where i believe these daggers fall
nail coffin buried :)
until someone finds some photos i think we're all agreed
A very well worn subject this one. Also known as BDM knives! I think it may have all started from Johnson's Volume 1, where he says:
"The DJ Fahrtenmesser (German Youth Knife). This small knife was authorised for wear by members of the Deutsches Jungvolk (German Youth)...."
As far as I'm aware, no-one in the collecting community has ever seen this 'authorisation'. The statement is wrong and mis-leading at this time.
In my opinion they are an un-attributed knife, until Johnson or someone can produce period documentation to substantiate the claim of DJ-BDM knives. They're not even in any period catalogues, but everything else is. There should be tens of thousands of these knives around, even more, if they were an official and sanctioned item. Just a moneymaker for people who don't know any better.
As for vet bring backs, they are stories, nothing more. They could have been uplifted after hostilities ceased, sold as souvenirs with a diamond added. Who wants a Third Reich plain-jane knife without a swastika?
I believe that they were made for Allied troops in 1946 to 1948.
Yes, the book I'm referencing is from 1942 and has a large section on clothing and equipment containing regulations up to 1942. It definitely doesn't show any changes to the knife regulations after those mentioned in my first post so we must assume that there was no need to change the regulations i.e. there was no 'DJ' knife. Should have been clearer on that.
And at the end of the day johnson is here to sell knifes, some people on other forums seem to treat him like the second coming, but there now seems to be a consensus that the buying public have been led down a rocky road....
Nicely put Zander. The search for proof should always be what drives us and that is our best weapon against those who group themselves into what they think is an invincible force in order to control opinions and to be able to rip people off when they think they can get away with it.
I've just got back from the pub and can't type any more now as the backspacing to correct my keyboard hits is getting annoying but I just wanted to get that thought posted.
Last edited by Garry; 13th June 2009 at 01:59 AM.