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whats really sad is that people who have these are already justifying them by saying that because shea/wittmann/johnson say they are good then they must be, just goes to show if enough people believe in the bullshit eventually new collectors will believe them, what hope for the future
That's why we're (Russ particularly) pushing Weinand to admit that he doesn't know anything and that the whole 'DJ' knife thing is nothing more than a convenient story with the sole aim of selling the unsaleable. I'm surprised (and pleased) to see him responding but it's just vague evasive stuff which doesn't say anything. This is why he and people like him don't say anything on our forum. They don't see why they should have to prove anything and they see it as irritation that collectors don't just roll over and get their wallets out.
The argument that collectors need to show photos of items being reproduced to prove they are reproductions and not period items is an odd angle as well. Lets see all those fake SS camo items being sewn and dyed that get bashed on a daily basis if pictures of fakes being manufactured are necessary to prove they are fakes. I also find it odd that when pressed there is mention of a "hunting dagger" catalog but this is clearly supposed to be an issued membership dagger when adorned with a membership pin. When discussing the only proof of these items being period items is "vet obtained" is pointed out there is the mention of some "Drumer" insignia? Is this mentioned insignia completely non standard and never seen except in these "vet obtained" lots? Also what would be the difference between a "late war example" and an early example. Are we going to see these start to surface with the round DJV pins attached next? I know very little about knives, but please, at least admit there is a least some questions regarding the period use of these knives.
Garry, i doubt whether you can "push" anyone of these people. Far too long has their "opinion" or COA been worth more to collectors than common sense. What they lack in general knowledge they make up for with arrogance. Ever try and trip Wittmann up at a show? he just stands there like 12 o`clock half struck and then turns his back on you. Anything that History offers up to destroy their latest fake will be countered with "I have 50 years of experience" we have all seen it on the Gottlieb SA birdshead dagger thread, a fake, supported by bogus photos made by its creator, and 1960s forger Jim Atwood but thats dont mean a thing, as Mr Gottlieb recently wrote in defense of his 65,950.- fake dagger: you will see that I do have a Wittmann certificate on it, who physically inspected the dagger.
So if common sense wont prevail with these fat-cat high rollers, and if History is also not good enough to slap their arrogant faces, then how can you win? how can you even attempt a logical discussion with people who have been, and always will, continue to use the "opinions" of a certain few as "definite proof" that a piece of rubbish, is genuine? these stupid DJ knives fall into the same category.
These High rollers will NEVER dare to show their face on this forum, because here they dont have the support that they have on their Home-Forum, and will get asked logical questions that they will not be able to answer - hence making them look like Muppets in Public, with no defense from their regular few. You see, they all know that its a Game, and they need to make money, not answer stupid Historical questions that prove that their items are rubbish, they are quite happy in trying to convince people the craps good by pulling other reputations out of the bag ... thats all they have, 500 years of "selling-knowledge" between them, and ZERO years of actual research or History.. its a Money-making game to them, that they can ONLY, ONLY. back up by calling one of their friends to say something positive about it, or pointing to a friend who "also sells them" ... but actual knowledge, actual facts?? when did you last see one of these so-called Experts, actually HELPING the community and providing some useful, researched information?? when? it has never happened, because it cant...spaghetti-heads the lot of them... they are Business men, and have nothing in common with collectors or researchers.
All true and it looks like the guy on that thread has given Weinand the benefit of the doubt. Discussions like that are a staggering waste of time. Moral of the story? If you want your 'DJ' knife to get a good reception, show it where the dealers hang out. Better still, show it on a forum they (allegedly) control.
to be honest gar, as soon as ron made his first comment the guy was sold because thats what he wanted to hear, every negative point made after that was ignored or given a twist ie the people calling it a fake should have proof its a fake as well
You're right Stu. Very clear that all the guy wanted was a load of nodding dogs with their thumbs up.
Well this is just it, it does not even warrant any time pointing out History or getting people to explain how they fit into history, when all they want, is a thumbs-up, and will surely GET it at that forum, or any other forum where these few dealers are, simply as you stated Garry, they have all sold them, and all continue to sell them, so expecting any factual debate from these people is a waste of time.
The main thing is, They are making themselves look stupid by listing them, and making themselves look even more stupid by posting that they are real, and at the same time showing the community just what "evidence" they place the most importance on, namely EACH OTHER. They know the Truth guys, but to acknowledge the truth, would mean they would have to give many people money back.. bad business practice, that will, no, MUST be avoided at any cost.
Guys, what do we expect? we have seen Wittmans latest Gag with the HJ knives... "I think the mark looks old, therefore for ME, this is SOLID EVIDENCE that the HJ knives were introduced in 1929" i mean? wtf?? c`mon, any normal thinking collector sees the scam, sees the arrogance.. they are really only hurting themselves.. It wont stop, they need to shift the rest before they die.
Last edited by Jo Rivett; 8th July 2012 at 06:35 PM.
It would appear that inimicus owns one of these 'DJ' knives and is going to be offering it on the estand. The thread makes perfect sense now... The more charitable viewers of that thread might feel a little sorry for him because he is now facing the loss of every cent he paid for that dud. The less charitable would be right in saying that he should have started that thread before buying the knife. I just hope that there was a dealer behind the sale with a lifetime guarantee and that a precedent will be set.
Maybe he got it from Ron!