Please login to view user info
Thanks for adding the pics and info - most interesting.
I believe the knives themselves to be period manufacture, and I think most people do. They are promoted as sanctioned items for the DJ and BDM without period proof, and therefore, command high prices. To get one with a diamond now makes it scarce, or rare, thus commanding even more. This is the area of contention - their link to these organisations without documented period proof, in all of their various guises.
Paul, your comment is interesting regarding when you first saw these appear. One of the Mods at GDC said he and others saw the etched commemorative knives first appear in the 80's - is that what you mean, or does this also apply to the knives with the diamond added?
Last edited by RussellM; 14th September 2009 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Sp.
THERE was much made of high quality for the souvenir hungry troops for instance the SA daggers which still pass today as period.
Rus I was refering to the knives with diamonds in scabbard, I bought my engraved in 1971 and sold it to Angolia shortly after
militarynut is selling what he calls a BDM knife which had no insignia
Last edited by Paul Ayerst; 14th September 2009 at 03:52 AM.
Well, anyway, that's my two bits..
At least now there some images of the "mystery" knife here for all to see..
If anybody would like specific images, just let me know ..
All the best ..
Paul, I only have twenty-two years of dagger experience, but I'm a quick learner ..
Mike hopefully some day soon positive info will come out on this knife and yours will be worth a bunch, until then we can discuss it in open forum get everyones ideas and perhaps that will bring out the truth
Noone is disputing I think that the knives are period - just that they are 'DJ' knives. It can be proven that they were not an officially procured item made for wear by the DJ but still there remains doubt among collectors which I personally cannot understand.
Yes, there are owners of these knives who may have a vested interest in continuing to propagate the idea that the knives are more important than the evidence would suggest but if you look past that what else is there?
In my opinion there is nothing to suggest that a price tag in the multi-hundred dollar region is remotely justified. I and others can quote regulations verbatim which speak against the existence of a 'DJ' knife but this evidence is often dismissed out of hand: 'regulations are useful but they don't tell you everything'. Well yes, that is an argument but in a situation where the only true evidence available speaks against the existence of a 'DJ' knife then I'm at a loss to understand how anyone can imagine that there is anything more to say unless of course it is evidence for the DJ knife which would indeed be very welcome.
Simply telling people that these knives are DJ without offering evidence to support that statement just isn't helpful - not to the collector and not to those who spent serious money on one. It only helps one group - the dealers who can continue to charge silly money for an unsubstantiated knife.
I would think that if these knives with the diamond on the scabbard were made during the period a better effort would have been made to conceal the damage to the rivet, repainting the entire scabbard if necessary. If the diamond was added directly after the war possibly within a few months after May 1945 the correct black paint that we take for granted possibly was not available. As they are found today all that would have been needed was just a few hand tools and nothing else to make the change. Just my thoughts as nobody knows for sure. Mike
Edited as I'm just saying the same thing over and over :)
Agree totally with you Mike. Too easy to just slap a diamond onto the scabbard.
Like I said in an earlier posting, I have an open mind about these little mystery knives. And you have never heard me refer to them as anything other than "mystery knife" ..
I appreciate and do not completely disagree with your firm standing as to the origin of these knives. I also appreciate and do not disagree with the stance of Mr. Johnson and Mr. Weinand. You both have equally substantial view points. I know, the "true" answer will probably never be known..
My only intention in posting on this forum topic was to provide clear images for all to view and use as they will. And to provide my little theory of another possibility as to why the little mystery knives exist.
Now on a lighter note, the irony .. Last night, I received an email from a person that saw my posting on this forum. He offered $850. for my little mystery knife. I respectfully declined his offer as the little knife is not for sale.
Paul - The SA my Uncle brought back is the real McCoy ..
Last edited by Fluglehrer; 14th September 2009 at 02:44 PM.
My apologies if my post came across as being directed toward you personally Fluglehrer. That definitely wasn't my intention. They are very good pictures and thanks for posting them.
Yes, it is eminently possible that the true answer may never be known (although I have my doubts) but in the meantime these knives continue to attract hefty price tags and the mystique surrounding them continues and is indeed propagated on the various forums. Very unhealthy situation for collectors in my opinion.
DJ knife if you like) have provided sufficient proof? I only ask because you imply that you agree fully with their take but not completely with mine. They don't have any hard evidence as far as I'm aware. Just interested - not an attack :)
first off I do not recall questioning your uncles SA but refering to the post war parts daggers quickly made up some with strange engravings for sports events.
Secondly I agree there is a heavy influence by bigger named dealers with this knife and other things using the cover of so called motel buys. When I used to do the shows up here most of my TR sales where to vets and German immigrants.