HJ leader Walther pistol

The first photo was taken at the 1938 Reichsparteitag. The sentries are from von Schirach's Wachgefolgschaft. They will have been wearing a sleeve triangle with "RJF Wachgefolgschaft" and the cufftitle "Baldur von Schirach".

Edit: here is one of the sentries on the other side of the podium (source: akg-images.de)

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Is anyone familiar with the book "Education for Death-the Making of the Nazi", written in 1943 by former Headmaster of the American School in Berlin from 1928 to 1939? Ziemer wrote that he was informed by HJ officials in Berlin that the NSDAP provided 10,000 pistols a year to the Hitler Youth, as well as an equal or greater number of small caliber rifles. That is quite a number of pistols if he wasn't being fed a line by the HJ leadership. He went on further to write that the HJ had a firearms school at "Obermatzfeld in Thüringia". This school was directed by Obergebietsführer Dr. Hellmuth Stellrecht, also an SS officer. Has anyone found any corroboration for this information? Thank you. I don't know if there is a German town named Obermatzfeld.
 
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The first Reichsschiessschule was located in Obermaßfeld, Gebiet 17 Thüringen but was closed in the autumn of 1939. A new school was opened in Suhl (also in Gebiet 17 Thüringen) in 1941. Dr. Helmut Stellrecht was an Obergebietsführer and RJF staff officer and did not have any direct involvement in the running of the shooting school although he did, in his capacity as head of the RJF department "Leibeserziehung", play a large role in establishing the system of paramilitary training for the youth (sport, shooting, field training etc) within which the shooting schools operated.

I don't have any information on the provision of pistols and .22 rifles by the NSDAP.
 
The first Reichsschiessschule was located in Obermaßfeld, Gebiet 17 Thüringen but was closed in the autumn of 1939. A new school was opened in Suhl (also in Gebiet 17 Thüringen) in 1941. Dr. Helmut Stellrecht was an Obergebietsführer and RJF staff officer and did not have any direct involvement in the running of the shooting school although he did, in his capacity as head of the RJF department "Leibeserziehung", play a large role in establishing the system of paramilitary training for the youth (sport, shooting, field training etc) within which the shooting schools operated.

I don't have any information on the provision of pistols and .22 rifles by the NSDAP.
Garry, then quite possibly the Walther PP I showed in the earlier post was used at the new school in Suhl, as the pistol is dated from 1942. I searched Stellrecht's SS officer file but found no information on his work with the HJ. Do you have perhaps any addresses for the shooting schools in Obermaßfeld and Suhl? Often the buildings and/or shooting ranges were used in the post war period.
 
The Obermaßfeld school building appears still to be there. Here's the address of a company situated in the building: : Frankeninsel 5, 98617 Obermaßfeld-Grimmenthal. Dr. Stellrecht carried out the official opening ceremony for this school on 21.8.1937.

None of the orders and regulations that I have mention an address for the later shooting school in Suhl unfortunately but there is still a large shooting facility there: Schießsportzentrum Suhl, Schützenstraße 6, 98527 Suhl. I suppose it's possible that the HJ school was on or very near that spot.
 
This is very interesting to me as I've been working on a project for a while now to research all leaders of the Banne, Untergaue etc 1933-45. There were three different Bannführer during the course of 1944 for Bann 244 with the last appointment (currently known to me anyway) being made on 26.7.1944. Heck must have been appointed after this but does he say when he was made Bannführer 244?

Also, Bannführer Wendt.. I have a few in my list with that surname. Is there any detail on where Heck was when he was promoted by Wendt?

Incidentally, there was one other 16 year-old Bannführer by the name of Edgar Gielsdorf who was Bannführer 464 from 1942 to 1943. He was appointed two weeks before his 17th birthday though so your guy beats him ;)

Thanks in advance.
not exactly but looks like late 44 or early 45 his mention of dates is kind of vague so you have to go through preceding chapters to find the time line, he was @ Luftwaffe base near Kassel when called back to Wittlich by Bannführer Wendt , he made Heck Bannführer because Arthur Axmann orderd Wendt to take charge of defense of right bank of the Rhine.
 
A post card of Obermaßeld shooting school, still looks same & has same statue, school for senior HJ shooting instructors, each district sent 2 of its best here, @ the onset of war it served as a hospital for POW aviators, then postwar as a school, now housing for the elderly, information only mentions training for rifles, target range is on a hill above school where they marched to daily, I have some Walther training rifles does makes you wonder where they where used, but Walther's records where destroyed, unless you have a legitimate property stamp on your Walther firearm you never know its path.

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A post card of Obermaßeld shooting school, still looks same & has same statue, school for senior HJ shooting instructors, each district sent 2 of its best here, @ the onset of war it served as a hospital for POW aviators, then postwar as a school, now housing for the elderly, information only mentions training for rifles, target range is on a hill above school where they marched to daily, I have some Walther training rifles does makes you wonder where they where used, but Walther's records where destroyed, unless you have a legitimate property stamp on your Walther firearm you never know its path.

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Right you are. And they kept the statue. Google Earth found the address on the other side of the street. But the building outline was obvious.
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The 11th Armored and 90th Inf Div liberated a huge quantity of weapons from the Walther plant and who knows what Operation Paperclip retrieved before Z-M was turned over to the Russians. IMO the Russians would never destroy anything of interest and removed to Moscow all Walther records not taken by the US. The archives there are still being discovered by historians.
 

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not exactly but looks like late 44 or early 45 his mention of dates is kind of vague so you have to go through preceding chapters to find the time line, he was @ Luftwaffe base near Kassel when called back to Wittlich by Bannführer Wendt , he made Heck Bannführer because Arthur Axmann orderd Wendt to take charge of defense of right bank of the Rhine.

Although I can see some official (authorised by the Gebietsführer) changes of command at Bann level in late-1944 and even into 1945 I think that in this case, this will have been a local and temporary change of command i.e Heck holds the fort for the duration of Wendt's mission but Wendt is still the actual Bannführer. Having said that, the date of Wendt's appointment is still unknown to me so hopefully I'll find a reference at some point.
 
Right you are. And they kept the statue. Google Earth found the address on the other side of the street. But the building outline was obvious.
No idea why but house number 5 is actually on both sides of the street in Google Maps World. Both Gaststätte Papperla Pub (on the right in the photo) and the school on the left are both given as Frankeninsel 5.

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Although I can see some official (authorised by the Gebietsführer) changes of command at Bann level in late-1944 and even into 1945 I think that in this case, this will have been a local and temporary change of command i.e Heck holds the fort for the duration of Wendt's mission but Wendt is still the actual Bannführer. Having said that, the date of Wendt's appointment is still unknown to me so hopefully I'll find a reference at some point.
Hello, yet in a proceeding chapter he writes he gave up command of 244 to someone after leading HJ troops to fortified line, then I think he went on a Luftwaffe mission to recover some radar, radio equipment. so that would make up 3 people as Bannführer in this time line, think you mentioned 3 people, in any case buy the books Gary! lo, maybe you will understand his timeline better than me.
 
Difficult to know without the book obviously but I have three confirmed Bannführer in 1944 for Bann 244 but none of them were Wendt or Heck. The first guy was appointed on 1.7.43 and left in May 1944. His replacement left the post on 26.7. and was himself replaced. I don't yet have an end date for Bannführer number three but it's great fun tracking these leaders down so many thanks for the info. I have added Wendt and Heck to my list as provisionals for 244 though and hope to confirm them with with further sources at some point.
 
The first photo was taken at the 1938 Reichsparteitag. The sentries are from von Schirach's Wachgefolgschaft. They will have been wearing a sleeve triangle with "RJF Wachgefolgschaft" and the second pattern cufftitle "Baldur von Schirach".

Edit: here is one of the sentries on the other side of the podium (source: akg-images.de)

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Garry, so this unit was von Schirach's bodyguard? I checked the list of RSD units guarding Hitler and other party/government leaders and he was not listed. Was the Wachgefolgschaft continued as Axmann's bodyguard unit. Any specifics as to personnel, numbers, weapons, organization? When von Schirach moved to Vienna, he had no RSD unit providing security.
 
If you'd like to start a new thread that would perhaps be better as this one is beginning to move away from the subject of shooting now.
 
I did so Garry. You might delete my comment and the following two from you and me.
 
I've made a quick post on the new thread and will follow up tomorrow or Friday (wine tonight) :)
 
Oh no, a cheap Müller Thürgau. I can't taste good wine after the second glass so I just go cheap from the start :)
 
here what the school looks like now almost unchanged since the postcard pic, it was a seed storage building, hence the statue of a farmer sowing grain, before being took over by the SA to turn into a shooting school.

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The Obermaßfeld school building appears still to be there. Here's the address of a company situated in the building: : Frankeninsel 5, 98617 Obermaßfeld-Grimmenthal. Dr. Stellrecht carried out the official opening ceremony for this school on 21.8.1937.

None of the orders and regulations that I have mention an address for the later shooting school in Suhl unfortunately but there is still a large shooting facility there: Schießsportzentrum Suhl, Schützenstraße 6, 98527 Suhl. I suppose it's possible that the HJ school was on or very near that spot.
It is a small world in collecting, especially when you buy things and forget you have it or fail to list it in inventory lists. I was going through an "extra" books box looking for extra volumes of Ruhle's "Das Dritte Reich" for a friend, when I found this book. Sadly it is all text and no images, but it does contain a chapter on handling weapons. Red cover with no conspicuous HJ markings.

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