HJ shoulder boards - AHS Stammführer, Bannführer and Obergefolgschaftsführer

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peterB

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After an opinion about these. They are a selection of some of the ranking boards in a collection. I am really new at this game having inherited a collection so am slowly working my way through it (counted 75 singles/pair so far!). I am concerned if they are real because of the warning about fakes at these rank level, so I can weed them out (and destroy them!). Anyone with knowledge of other fakes out there and advice on what else to look for?


AHS Stammführer. Looking closely and picking apart a small piece of silver thread, I cannot see any indication of nylon but equally can see not indication of an RZM label. Are these generally faked?

I have included a picture of some other boards in the collection for some questions.

The Bannführer board. The Gefolgschaft blog (thanks Gefolgschaft) indicates this board has silver piping, but mine does not. Is this possible? Can the RZM label number be traced to see what it relates to?

The Obergefolgschaftsführer has a label stating it is from the Dodkins collection. (There are many items with this label). Does anyone know who Dodkins was?

Width of silver bars. The Gefolgschaft blog (thanks Gefolgschaft) states they are 5mm, but here are some of 5mm but also one of 15mm. Can they vary as much as this?

The Gold/silver Bars. I assume the silver bars are for Rottenführer/Oberrottenführer etc. But what are the gold bars for and why would they sell them as a set. Are they even HJ?

I have some other boards which I think are Greek and/or Italian. I also have some others that may not be HJ or even German. Is this the place to post them?

Phew. I think that is all for now (just 70 more to go!)

Thanks

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Dodkins was a collector and author. When I started collecting in
the 1970's his name was well-known then in those days.
I do not have any idea about his real knowledge. I remember
his name from books, which was one of the first published by
Bender Publishing, if I remember well (it is about 45 years ago).

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Hi,

peterB said:
The Bannführer board. The Gefolgschaft blog (thanks Gefolgschaft) indicates this board has silver piping, but mine does not. Is this possible? Can the RZM label number be traced to see what it relates to?
Click to expand...

This is a DJ strap which did not have silver cord. The metal emblem is not for a Bannführer or any HJ rank actually.

peterB said:
Width of silver bars. The Gefolgschaft blog (thanks Gefolgschaft) states they are 5mm, but here are some of 5mm but also one of 15mm. Can they vary as much as this?
Click to expand...

Yes, there was an official size but there was variation both on width and the type of band used. This can be seen on period photos and on surviving shoulder straps.

peterB said:
....what are the gold bars for and why would they sell them as a set. Are they even HJ?
Click to expand...

These are mentioned in a June 1939 regulation which states that they were for wear by Hitler Youth leaders placed at the disposal of the RJF ("zur Verfügung gestellt - z. V. Führer". The regulation calls them "Passanten" and you can see that repeated on the card. They were worn on the shoulder boards and the colour corresponded to the wearer's rank i.e. a Bannführer would wear silver, a Gebietsführer gold. RZM MPA example? Nice.
 
IMO the D.J. strap is a blank strap that was sold in RZM outlets to allow for Jungbann numbers to be stitched on later. As Garry has said the metal emblem does not belong on the strap. Added at some point and appears to be Stalhelm related to me. Closer shots of the AHS would be good, showing the background material clearly but they appear promising to me. The Gebietstab all look good.
 
Another pic.

I see what you mean. The pictures of the black back look....black. Taken some more to give a better view. IMO the backing material is felt.

Cheers
Peter

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wilhelm saris said:
The oak-leaves indeed could be from the Stahlhelm-organization.
Click to expand...


They do look the same, but that leaves me even more puzzled because the RZM label is stuck over the top of the rear fastnings. My quick understanding of dates of manufacture of RZM labels and the Stahlhelm-organization means that this shoulder board should not exist. Or am I mistaken?
 
The AHS boards would not like me somehow. The letters and the back are not as I know them.
I also believe that the stars were added later. With such a board, the stars would have been incorporated into the production.
At least that is my opinion. Or, my thought.
 
I once had an H.J. strap with a Stalhelm type metal oak leaf device like this attached. When, why, and where who could say but it did appear to have been on the strap for a long time in hand.
 
as far as I can see the oak-leaf attached to the strap even is from
the wrong material. The RZM tag could be glued on later. This is
often done to upgrade and get more money.
To me it looks as the embroidery for the AHS is not correct and it
is easy to attach pips to upgrade the set to get more money!!
 
wilhelm saris said:
Dodkins was a collector and author. When I started collecting in
the 1970's his name was well-known then in those days.
I do not have any idea about his real knowledge. I remember
his name from books, which was one of the first published by
Bender Publishing, if I remember well (it is about 45 years ago).

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Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. I went back and had a look through my book collection and found two books co-authored by him, but neither to do with Hitler Youth so did not make the connection. Teach me to pay better attention.
 
Yes, for me too the AHS stitching does not look correct. Like others say already the DJ strap symbol is not HJ or DJ but Stahlhelm. Otherwise, the Gebietsstab straps are nice!
 
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