haha yes, he needs to see both vids and then he needs to address his "period manufacture" etc nonsense. Like you said, he must have been aware of when you first looked at the badge so quite how he feels happy in still stating that the Aurich badges are okay is beyond me. Well, now he has a LOT to chew on. The clips couldn't be any clearer - these badges are sheeite and I hope that the links are shared all over the place and that the message gets through once and for all.
Let's talk about the HJ Honour badge for Distinguished Foreigners - HJ Ehrenzeichen für Verdiente Ausländer
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Never! We are talking about €2`800, each!
So the best thing to do will be pretend you never heard of the videos, and it will be business as usual.
Someone is always left holding the hot potato, so they will always sell as genuine.
Just look at the cast Deschler-marked version. up for sale after the examination and 4 videos, and Milestones auctions could not be bothered to contact me. I sent them a long mail... seems that commission of the sale was far too important than honesty, acknowledging any fakes.
You have to see it from the side of the auction house. They are not collectors, their sole income is, successfully selling an item and getting commission.
Is the item fake? That means they have wasted time and money printing it in their catalog, and no commission, so they lose!
And best believe, no way any auction house is going to lose.
Play dumb. "What? We sold a fake? Well we did research and online on the reputatble WAF, we saw that MR. Sloth has confirmed they were real, honest to goodness revets[sic!] and the enamel and "fit" were period. And we found them on xx site and xx auction house. Hey? Microscopes, what microscopes? Naaah mate, a magnifying glass is all you need."
I accepted that long ago, I will never be able to help the old guys, and those holding the fake. Money tips the scales.. period facts are not heavy enough.
We can only help the seriously interested, and the honest. The rest will continue munching cabbage leaves.
So the best thing to do will be pretend you never heard of the videos, and it will be business as usual.
Someone is always left holding the hot potato, so they will always sell as genuine.
Just look at the cast Deschler-marked version. up for sale after the examination and 4 videos, and Milestones auctions could not be bothered to contact me. I sent them a long mail... seems that commission of the sale was far too important than honesty, acknowledging any fakes.
You have to see it from the side of the auction house. They are not collectors, their sole income is, successfully selling an item and getting commission.
Is the item fake? That means they have wasted time and money printing it in their catalog, and no commission, so they lose!
And best believe, no way any auction house is going to lose.
Play dumb. "What? We sold a fake? Well we did research and online on the reputatble WAF, we saw that MR. Sloth has confirmed they were real, honest to goodness revets[sic!] and the enamel and "fit" were period. And we found them on xx site and xx auction house. Hey? Microscopes, what microscopes? Naaah mate, a magnifying glass is all you need."
I accepted that long ago, I will never be able to help the old guys, and those holding the fake. Money tips the scales.. period facts are not heavy enough.
We can only help the seriously interested, and the honest. The rest will continue munching cabbage leaves.
No need, I bent it with my fingers. You usually can with a cast, coz it`s not as compact. Still has a bit on the body and all on the diamond, so could do so in another video when the situation arises.I was kinda looking forward to seeing the pliers actually gripping the badge, bending it and shattering the plastic. However, funny as and a top job as always
So ..... where are the good ones?
What they really look like, and where they are?
What do we actually know?
- How many were produced= No
- Why they were awarded=No
- How many were awared=No
- When they were first awarded=No
- When they were last awarded=No
What we do know....
- Authors, dealers, auction house, collectors, all disagree on which ones are genuine and fake.
- They have been faked for at least 40 years.
- The Aurich-marked versions are cast fakes.
- The Gold plated/gilded/pained one I reviewed two years ago is a cast fake.
- The one I reviewed is identical the supposed ground dug ones as well as the others that are offered for sale by places like Weitze. (see above post on letter I & H)
Thats all we know right now.
The solution?
Anyone claiming to have a genuine one, needs to prove it is not the same as the two reviewed and exposed as cast fakes. Even good close-up images of just a few parts would solve that question. Like a close-up of the letters H and I on the body. And then maybe close-ups of other parts.
The claimers:
Anyone who owns one, claims it is original, yet fails to provide any detailed images, cannot be believed.
Only a detailed look at the actual item will provide clear answers.
Maybe, the original looks very similar to the ones exposed, and has been missed because it`s been lumped into the huge group of fakes.
Maybe only 12 were awared and all are lost?
Maybe only 124 were awarded and all are lost?
Maybe maybe maybe, and that`s all you will ever have until people LOOK at their items.
wilhelm saris
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Maybe when you find such badge, go and look in Norway and the Netherlands,
as there they were handed over (somewhere a girl from Norway is shown. The
photo also was published in the HJ-book by Littlejohn, page 334 and page 336).
So photos do proof that.
The amount of ever produced badges will not be large. Maybe they even had
enough with those that were manufactured as "experimentally"! The total amount
visible at available photographs gives us at least a number of 10-12 of such badges.
Maybe there are lists in the one or the other German archive (for example at
the Bundesarchiv) about the granting of these badges. No research done, no
solution is found!
Here a photo (credit: Jan-Arie Gijsen) where in 1944 at Hilversum in the Netherlands
as there they were handed over (somewhere a girl from Norway is shown. The
photo also was published in the HJ-book by Littlejohn, page 334 and page 336).
So photos do proof that.
The amount of ever produced badges will not be large. Maybe they even had
enough with those that were manufactured as "experimentally"! The total amount
visible at available photographs gives us at least a number of 10-12 of such badges.
Maybe there are lists in the one or the other German archive (for example at
the Bundesarchiv) about the granting of these badges. No research done, no
solution is found!
Here a photo (credit: Jan-Arie Gijsen) where in 1944 at Hilversum in the Netherlands
a male and female do wear their foreign badge!
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Well I guess this badge will remain a mystery wrapped in an enigma.....
Not quite a mystery wrapped in an enigma Mike but I know what you mean We know it was awarded in Holland and Norway definitely and we are quite sure the awards began in 1941 but as Jo says, the rest is currently speculation. This confusion is exploited by some but as Jo has shown, if the fakes are followed we can see the extent of that exploitation
I know ... I was just trying to be funny. Several people got taken with that badge (some for crazy money) & hopefully Jo's videos will keep more from taking that ride. Jo & his microscope is the grim reaper for (fake) badges. I see that Gary over at WAF finally conceded to Jo's proving that the HA MM badge is bad.
wilhelm saris
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yes, that's the one from the 1988-book from Littlejohn, page 334.
The badge was included in "Schwert und Spaten" in the fall from 1941.
No notes about granting in any of the known and available sources.
Maybe the handing over started in 1942. In the Netherlands it was
handed over quite late 1944.
Ron W. posted again today over on WAF that his & Ron R's are originals ....straight from the veterans. I believe they came from vets but where & when did the vets acquire them. I am a VN & Rhod.vet & have lost most my bring backs over the years (moves & divorces ) If I run across something I lost I might buy the item ..... VN was 50 yrs ago for me so the items I find might be modern re-pops & when I kick the bucket & someone buys all my junk at the estate sale they can say they acquired the items directly from the veterans estate & they would not be lying, but that being said it will not make the items original pieces. IMHO vet stories are just that ......stories.
Then they surely won`t mind proving that to their fans by uploading a clear image of the letter H and I, just to make sure that it`s not the same one that was already exposed as a fake 2 years ago, with a Deschler pin plate.
That`s all they would need to do, I did the rest for them. Couldn`t get any easier, could it?
I am not a fan of theirs, so they don`t need to prove anything to me. I`ve seen enough of the two Ronnies selling and posting fake after fake after fake, and then walking away when questions get raised to know bulls**t when I smell it.
Ronnies latest modern fake Tientsin badge says it all for me, getting poor old Sloth-Gary to fawn over it, unquestionably obidient.
I expose fakes, and those that sell them, that`s all. If others wish to play silly buggers on a dealer-controlled forum, let them.
That`s all they would need to do, I did the rest for them. Couldn`t get any easier, could it?
I am not a fan of theirs, so they don`t need to prove anything to me. I`ve seen enough of the two Ronnies selling and posting fake after fake after fake, and then walking away when questions get raised to know bulls**t when I smell it.
Ronnies latest modern fake Tientsin badge says it all for me, getting poor old Sloth-Gary to fawn over it, unquestionably obidient.
I expose fakes, and those that sell them, that`s all. If others wish to play silly buggers on a dealer-controlled forum, let them.
I pushed him over there but we all know what's gonna happen. Shag all. He clearly had access to vets who had an affidavit signed by God or Niemann. He has no interest in proving what he says. He will continue to feed the community whatever it takes to keep them swallowing. I haven't given up quite yet though.
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What a good topic full of reasonable, mature discussion...
Having recently begun collecting Nasjonal Samling, the picture of the Norwegian female on the previous page is what enlightened me to the existence of this badge. I know estimates in this topic is of at least 10-12 known awardings of this badge, I've seen three depicted in photos here. Question, and please excuse me if it's been answered and I overlooked it as I read through these 18 pages, but are there any clear images/period drawings/etc that show this badge in detail? How are we even certain that all the pieces discussed contain the actual details/wording of the awarded badges?
Having recently begun collecting Nasjonal Samling, the picture of the Norwegian female on the previous page is what enlightened me to the existence of this badge. I know estimates in this topic is of at least 10-12 known awardings of this badge, I've seen three depicted in photos here. Question, and please excuse me if it's been answered and I overlooked it as I read through these 18 pages, but are there any clear images/period drawings/etc that show this badge in detail? How are we even certain that all the pieces discussed contain the actual details/wording of the awarded badges?
Hi Brig and welcome to the forum. Wim Saris posted a picture of the badge from the publication Schwert und Spaten. Let me find it and I'll post the link in a moment.
Okay, posts 98 and 99 of this thread discuss and show that picture
Okay, posts 98 and 99 of this thread discuss and show that picture
wilhelm saris
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Hi Brig and welcome to the forum. Wim Saris posted a picture of the badge from the publication Schwert und Spaten. Let me find it and I'll post the link in a moment.
Okay, posts 98 and 99 of this thread discuss and show that picture
Maybe someone can provide a better picture from the SuS magazine. No doubt about the form for the badge.
Maybe some other old magazine may have shown and described this badge. I have not ever seen it, but who knows?
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I hope so...that image doesn't even show the words, I certainly hope that's not the only reference to go off of.
I am a member of a Norwegian forum...it's slow going since I need to read with Google Translate, but I'll start scrolling through looking for any other images or mentions of this badge, since we know they were awarded to Norwegian NSUF members