M7/36 E&F Hörster HJ knife with solid red enamel diamond insignia
Hi Guys,
My hj knife with solid red/opaque daimond insignia arrived today & i,m very pleased with the overall condition, i cannot see any tampering damage whatsoever to the rivets or griplates not even a hairline crack on the griplates, daimond insignia has the required movement, i.e springy up & down with side to side movement with that click sound when tapped with my finger just like some of my other hj knifes daimond insignia, the rest of the knife has some aged patina with some greying on the blade that i will gently clean way to preserve the blade from any further decay, the cloth on scabbard runners are still bright white which i was very happy to see, all i can say now is that i believe 100% solid red enamel hj daimond insignia was definetly used during the TR production period but not on the same scale as we see the commonly used clear pimpled hj daimonds therefore imo the solid red/opaque enamel hj daimond is a scarcer type to find on hj knifes.
Regards Mac 66.
My hj knife with solid red/opaque daimond insignia arrived today & i,m very pleased with the overall condition, i cannot see any tampering damage whatsoever to the rivets or griplates not even a hairline crack on the griplates, daimond insignia has the required movement, i.e springy up & down with side to side movement with that click sound when tapped with my finger just like some of my other hj knifes daimond insignia, the rest of the knife has some aged patina with some greying on the blade that i will gently clean way to preserve the blade from any further decay, the cloth on scabbard runners are still bright white which i was very happy to see, all i can say now is that i believe 100% solid red enamel hj daimond insignia was definetly used during the TR production period but not on the same scale as we see the commonly used clear pimpled hj daimonds therefore imo the solid red/opaque enamel hj daimond is a scarcer type to find on hj knifes.
Regards Mac 66.
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Something else for Herman to think about:
It does not make sense for a faker to manufacture a diamond with all the correct attributes including the correct size, thickness, and length of pins, and then do something completely different by leaving out the scaled base of the diamond! I also think that the fake solids we see today were replicated after seeing original solid examples of the type we are discussing.
Here's the x-ray of my solid red shown in the WAF thread.
Regards
Russ
It does not make sense for a faker to manufacture a diamond with all the correct attributes including the correct size, thickness, and length of pins, and then do something completely different by leaving out the scaled base of the diamond! I also think that the fake solids we see today were replicated after seeing original solid examples of the type we are discussing.
Here's the x-ray of my solid red shown in the WAF thread.
Regards
Russ
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You mean the background pattern ? it`s there, you just cant see it because the enamel is not translucent. So the only abnormality with opaque membership badges, is that the red enamel is not transparent. Another abnormality that applies to many opaque badges, is that they were made using lesser quality materials like eisen (magnetic) and messing-plated eisen (still magnetic on both sides even though the obverse is theoretically messing - but the messing sheet is so thin). Otherwise in most cases, they are stamped under the identical obverse and reverse dies.
How about the triangular NS-Frauenschaft badges? the small swastika in the center is found in both translucent and opaque, yet you dont ever hear any collector of these "doubt" them.:swiss
Hi Russ,
i looked thru my loupe today & yes i see the little dark spotted speckles that look like pepper,
looks like there closing ranks in on me over on GDC where i am finished posting for good,
Cheers Mac 66.
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If it has movement its good.
Sorry, but common sense tells us that this is BS. Why not try working out a definite way to authenticate the HJ diamond, instead of this rabble? It`s EASY!!!!!
If it moves its good ? WHAT ? the dagger? or the Diamond? Man, so glad i dont collect daggers otherwise i`d have been brainwashed long ago!
IF IT MOVES, = means that it has either been affixed poorly, replaced poorly, or has been in-use! Nothing more, and nothing less. (both scenarios apply equally to both fake as much as they do Good daggers)
I couldn't help note on your U-Toob vids that you say if the diamond is Silver, its a good indication that its a fake? Do you not know that most HJ badges were silverwashed? so if its silver, can also mean that it has not seen that much use... but no, another useless way of authenticating
In fact, everything you are using as a Good or Bad pointer has two sides or more to the story. And has absolutely no place in authenticating the item. You are taking one small piece, that can be exchanged in a matter of minutes, and inventing fables about it to use as a definite guide.. But wait, its not a definite guide at all, for everything you say is a Good indication, you then turn around and say that even if its not as you say, that doesn't mean that the item is bad??? madness.... useless...and a waste of time instead of looking at the points that really matter.
The helmet is real because the Decal looks good? The uniform is Original because the armband is at the right height? The badge is genuine because the attachment looks good? The Knights Cross is Real because the ribbon looks worn?
Do you not see it? "If the diamond wiggles its good" what a load of crap. Not in my opinion, according to COMMON SENSE !
youll never win mac they treat hermann and everything he says as gospel if he said blue diamond where real they would all rush out and buy them,
i love the way he avoids answering any questions by making stupid remarks, unfortunately the sheep over there believe everything he says so if he says bad then they all think bad, and he thinks hes helping the collecting community
i love the way he avoids answering any questions by making stupid remarks, unfortunately the sheep over there believe everything he says so if he says bad then they all think bad, and he thinks hes helping the collecting community
Hi Stu,
Every question i put to Herman he never answered because he does not know what to say but he likes to twist my words into lies to make me out to be a fool but little does he know that he is the fool, they can shove there GDC up their ####!!
He calls WAF members HJ knifes crappy & low end which boils my blood, have you seen some of the CRAP hj knifes hes sold in the past on the WAF e-stand?
I am certain he is trying to get me to blow my top on WAF & get me banned but he will never succeed,
I hope everbody has seen him for what he really is with his recent rantings.
Mac 66.
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Thats a great place. Nice to see what they consider Proof 
considering all this babble is coming from people who never spent 5 cents researching anything, cannot read or understand German, dont have a clue about anything except their egocentric selves.
Now you know why the forgers have had a field day with these kinds..... The only Proof i see on that thread, is that a few of the leaders there dont mind proving to the community how little they really know, about the basics !! And others are supposed to use the posts of Freaks like this as Guidance? as a HELP in collecting? building a collection? starting out? Why even get angry at them? it`s just sad.
What it does prove, is exactly what happened after the war. A few pot smokers got together, collected some daggers and decided to publish book after book after book about their collections, talking crap, and muppeting on about anything and everything that has zero to do with reality, inventing crap and saying that it`s so!! Just like the big wigs on that GDC forum, nod and give their Uncle Tom wink and grin in favor of, or against something..and say it`s so ! Same crap repeating over and over, just generations later, and NONE of them have any idea about History or facts..... all muppeting on in the wrong direction.
I am personally enjoying this, and a few other events that have recently come to light (as well as recently published). I had stopped writing on `n off for a few years now, and only really decided to get my act together late last year. And due to the nature of the book, was always a bit, apprehensive or skeptical. But all the pieces have suddenly fallen into place, and continue falling - in my (as well as the communities) favor fold x100.
considering all this babble is coming from people who never spent 5 cents researching anything, cannot read or understand German, dont have a clue about anything except their egocentric selves. Now you know why the forgers have had a field day with these kinds..... The only Proof i see on that thread, is that a few of the leaders there dont mind proving to the community how little they really know, about the basics !! And others are supposed to use the posts of Freaks like this as Guidance? as a HELP in collecting? building a collection? starting out? Why even get angry at them? it`s just sad.
What it does prove, is exactly what happened after the war. A few pot smokers got together, collected some daggers and decided to publish book after book after book about their collections, talking crap, and muppeting on about anything and everything that has zero to do with reality, inventing crap and saying that it`s so!! Just like the big wigs on that GDC forum, nod and give their Uncle Tom wink and grin in favor of, or against something..and say it`s so ! Same crap repeating over and over, just generations later, and NONE of them have any idea about History or facts..... all muppeting on in the wrong direction.
I am personally enjoying this, and a few other events that have recently come to light (as well as recently published). I had stopped writing on `n off for a few years now, and only really decided to get my act together late last year. And due to the nature of the book, was always a bit, apprehensive or skeptical. But all the pieces have suddenly fallen into place, and continue falling - in my (as well as the communities) favor fold x100.
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fair play to herman where would we be without him though its thanks to him that most of the hj around today are classed as original dont believe, me in his own words :
so if i go to lots of fairs and look at lots of stuff i become an expert
so if i go to lots of fairs and look at lots of stuff i become an expert
Were considered...? Or Where, but in another context?......
so if i go to lots of fairs and look at lots of stuff i become an expert
You become more than that, but you need to take the first man-step, and become a dealer..... it`s a prerequisite, then a lifetime member, after that, the sky`s the limit. nudge-nudge wink-wink
And boy oh boy, dont forget to not show up, at every Militaria Show known to man and mouse, otherwise your cred sinks, after all, the real expert is not he who is focused and dedicated, it is he, who dwells in the shadows of the fairs, he who lurks under every table at the MAX, he who has been there, seen it, survived and tells his tales...as it was...as it is!! Amen!
Well, i have been to fairs in a few more countries than he has, do i win i prize? or were the rules:: Germany/France/Belgium-10 years running-non stop?
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I must agree that if you don't know, or have, the secret GDC handshake, it's hard to make any headway there, which is one of the reasons many people have left.
Jo, regarding the base of the opaque diamonds, I stand to be corrected on that one. But, I'm sure I have a pic of a damaged version with a flat base beneath it. I'll see if I can find it and will post if successful.
Regards
Russ
Jo, regarding the base of the opaque diamonds, I stand to be corrected on that one. But, I'm sure I have a pic of a damaged version with a flat base beneath it. I'll see if I can find it and will post if successful.
Regards
Russ
The surface is not flat, but roughed up. It needs to be in order for the enamel to adhere to it. This Roughed up, Gravel, or wavy pattern can be found on many translucent enameled badges as well. (not just bubbles - rice corns - stippling.
If you break the enamel off of good badges, (with opaque red) you will find an array of patterns, lines, score marks, and if the same die was used, then obviously the same die with rice corns or bubbles. The more opaque red badges you inspect, the more it becomes clear that a "change" happened, into the zinc period we also find makers using the same dies with "stippling - or bubbles " - just painted over, and towards the end of the zinc period you find that new dies were made, with no pattern and a different reverse made to accommodate lugs or other ways of affixing the attachment without solder. But they all have some form of pattern, even though you may think it looks blank, it is not. Enlarge a portion and you will see..
The pattern, is applied by hand, not by transfer when reducing the die from the master,(or working hub) the master (and hub) is blank. So if the die maker, or badge maker knew that he would need to only paint the badge, then he would save the work of adding the pattern(s) by hand and leave it blank. If they knew that opaque was being used (which at some point is was, used across Germany and the annexed terr. by most, or all makers at the same time) then there is no need to invest extra time in making a fancy pattern that nobody will see, and instead all that needs to be done is that the surface needs to be roughed up, or have "some" quick roughing up added so that the enamel will adhere.
I covered this in-depth in the book, with many, many detailed images to best explain, so i cant go on here anymore about that. Just wait till summer next year! This "background" pattern Topic is covered extensively in the book, and i must admit, had me captured for many months. It`s not only mentioned, but gone into in detail like never before. The study of this small "element" alone, can contribute in a positive way in future evaluations, if it is correctly understood in relationship to manufacturing and period construction regarding equipment etc etc... BUT, you need really good images!!
This is the problem today with small images like the one you just posted, where to be honest, if you didn't know what you were on about, would lead you to reach 100 different opinions. When specifics are studied, in-depth, using magnified images, as well as a clear understanding of why you are seeing what you are seeing, it makes outing the fakes, Easy!
If you break the enamel off of good badges, (with opaque red) you will find an array of patterns, lines, score marks, and if the same die was used, then obviously the same die with rice corns or bubbles. The more opaque red badges you inspect, the more it becomes clear that a "change" happened, into the zinc period we also find makers using the same dies with "stippling - or bubbles " - just painted over, and towards the end of the zinc period you find that new dies were made, with no pattern and a different reverse made to accommodate lugs or other ways of affixing the attachment without solder. But they all have some form of pattern, even though you may think it looks blank, it is not. Enlarge a portion and you will see..
The pattern, is applied by hand, not by transfer when reducing the die from the master,(or working hub) the master (and hub) is blank. So if the die maker, or badge maker knew that he would need to only paint the badge, then he would save the work of adding the pattern(s) by hand and leave it blank. If they knew that opaque was being used (which at some point is was, used across Germany and the annexed terr. by most, or all makers at the same time) then there is no need to invest extra time in making a fancy pattern that nobody will see, and instead all that needs to be done is that the surface needs to be roughed up, or have "some" quick roughing up added so that the enamel will adhere.
I covered this in-depth in the book, with many, many detailed images to best explain, so i cant go on here anymore about that. Just wait till summer next year! This "background" pattern Topic is covered extensively in the book, and i must admit, had me captured for many months. It`s not only mentioned, but gone into in detail like never before. The study of this small "element" alone, can contribute in a positive way in future evaluations, if it is correctly understood in relationship to manufacturing and period construction regarding equipment etc etc... BUT, you need really good images!!
This is the problem today with small images like the one you just posted, where to be honest, if you didn't know what you were on about, would lead you to reach 100 different opinions. When specifics are studied, in-depth, using magnified images, as well as a clear understanding of why you are seeing what you are seeing, it makes outing the fakes, Easy!
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Jo, I am so looking forward to have a copy of your book (hopefully signed) in my hands.
But, sorry if I sound a bit negative. It doesn't matter if you shows a strong proof of a piece being made during the period, it doesn't matter if there is a photo of the same Uncle Adolf showing the knife with that type of diamond. Or even if that type of diamond appears to be in a period publication. Some people will not change.
Jo, a while ago you open this thread
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f54/dings-vom-dach-6836/
Now, what I am showing to you is related to this thread and some people, that even having the wrong information or opinion, doesn't want just to see more than that.
Tell me, what is in the attached picture? who used those things?
Thanks in advance
Regards
Antonio
PS WELL DONE YOU TOO MAC!! Good defence you are doing!!!!!:scot
But, sorry if I sound a bit negative. It doesn't matter if you shows a strong proof of a piece being made during the period, it doesn't matter if there is a photo of the same Uncle Adolf showing the knife with that type of diamond. Or even if that type of diamond appears to be in a period publication. Some people will not change.
Jo, a while ago you open this thread
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f54/dings-vom-dach-6836/
Now, what I am showing to you is related to this thread and some people, that even having the wrong information or opinion, doesn't want just to see more than that.
Tell me, what is in the attached picture? who used those things?
Thanks in advance
Regards
Antonio
PS WELL DONE YOU TOO MAC!! Good defence you are doing!!!!!:scot
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Hi Scott, I'll have to dig through some old files, on an old pc, but if I find anything useful, I'll let you know.
I have pics somewhere of diamonds with a flat base, before enamel was added, but I don't recall if they were membership badges, or knife diamonds.
I haven't been in touch with Russ for a few years now, and I don't remember if we discussed these at all.
Regards
Russ
I have pics somewhere of diamonds with a flat base, before enamel was added, but I don't recall if they were membership badges, or knife diamonds.
I haven't been in touch with Russ for a few years now, and I don't remember if we discussed these at all.
Regards
Russ
Thanks Russ Mate
Every little bit of info helps & all is much appreciated .
Cheers Mac 66.