Ostmark Landdienst der HJ 1938 tinnie

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wizardelf

wizardelf

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:yo: hello everybody,
wanted to share with you my latest purchase.
It's a badge, in some light weight metal for the "Ostmark Landdienst der HJ 1938"
It shows the Schwert und Scholle insignia.
On the backside it is makermarked with RZM M24
Will just fit nicely in my Landdienst/Landjahr Theme.

enjoy
:belgium
wizardelf

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1938 - yet Transitional markings, without the M1/ prefix?? i dont know anything about this badge, but based on the markings alone, i dont like it. The M1/24 code is a favorite for fakers of the NSF high ranking badges.
Basically, i just dont see it happening that a maker who didnt make anything, (i say that, because M1/24 is a bit like M1/129 - the only known badges that show this mark are fake) and as late as 1938, when the M9/ prefix was well established and up and running for a few years already.... also at least 2 years after the M1/ prefix was certainly adopted and WELL in use (from at least early 1936 each and every maker was most certainly using the new M1/ prefix )

Sure tinnies do show up marked in a funny way, but not as late as 1938 IMHO, and the number 24 is, imho, a big red flag. Early tinnies - or event badges marked in a very starnge way only seem to date from late 1933 to very early 1934 - around may or so.

To me, this would be like finding the M1/ prefix on a 1932 item... i just dont see this happening - sorry to sound negative.
 
Hmm,
I took once again a close look at the backside for the makermarkings, altough it does not show on the pics, it is even impossible to see in real, there is in fact a similar marking after the M and after the 24, but very faintly present.
At first, since it has a round shape, I thought it to be a 0, but that is not possible, I do not know a M0, so it could be a 9.
The fact that the markings to the exterior side are more faintly present does seem acceptable to me.

So thanks to your comment, I discovered this so maeby it could be still an original.
Furthermore I see no reason why to make such a, untill now never seen before, "fake" badge, where the profit of making it, seems so low that one would not bother to manufacter it?
I appreciate your comment, because this gives me new knowledge, but in the meantime I will consider it as an original.
Thx
:belgium
Wizardelf
 
oK,

will try to make better pics of it, but unsure if this will work, because holding the badge upclose in reality it is but slightly noticebly.
That's why I only noticed it after inspected it more thoroughly after having read your comment on makersmark.
I would hate it:cursing: to have paid good money for a bogus item, even if it was for a reasonable price.
Furthermore I do only have a not high standard digital camera, not the best tool for taking close-up in detail good quality pics.:help:

But having said all this, I once must express my thanks for your well appreciated comment.
Thx
:belgium
wizardelf

Will see if I can take does pics and post them :confused1:
 
wizardelf said:
oK,

will try to make better pics of it, but unsure if this will work, because holding the badge upclose in reality it is but slightly noticebly.
Click to expand...

Yep, I've managed, in playing with the badge and the lightning to come to some point in being able to show you, what I meant.
wizardelf
:belgium

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wizardelf said:
oK,

will try to make better pics of it, but unsure if this will work, because holding the badge upclose in reality it is but slightly noticebly.
That's why I only noticed it after inspected it more thoroughly after having read your comment on makersmark.
I would hate it:cursing: to have paid good money for a bogus item, even if it was for a reasonable price.
Furthermore I do only have a not high standard digital camera, not the best tool for taking close-up in detail good quality pics.:help:

But having said all this, I once must express my thanks for your well appreciated comment.
Thx
:belgium
wizardelf

Will see if I can take does pics and post them :confused1:
Click to expand...
Just because i have issues with the number (as i see it now - from your images) does not mean that its bad - all i am saying is that for a 1938 piece, IF the number really does read M24 - then flags should be raised. And take into consideration the high level fake M1/24 marked NSF badges, as well as others - but still .... this is certainly no conclusive proof that its bad at all. Strange stuff happened for sure - no denying that - but 1938 is a little late for German strange stuff.... if it was an Austrian, or Sudetenland maker YES YES and YES again..... but a German maker in 1938 - marking like this (IF the images are showing us the correct mark M24 RZM) i have a big problem with that...

Better pics will help. esp. if as you say, a faint "9" is visible.
 
wizardelf said:
Furthermore I see no reason why to make such a, untill now never seen before, "fake" badge, where the profit of making it, seems so low that one would not bother to manufacturer it?
Click to expand...
Sorry for the salt, but HH sold one as well, and as i could prove if you like, they sell lots of shxt... i could show you a lot of small abzeichen they sold for €800.- in the last sale and at least 3 were fantasy, and 3 fake .... but all sold as original :-(
Its not an "unknown badge" ... and like i said in post 1 by me, i dont know the badge personally, but i have a bad feeling...... which does not mean you should have.... it does not matter really....
Meinungen sind erlaubt :) oder ? .... doch :clap2:

EDIT: Sorry, but i dont see why it should be a secret that HH sell SHxT, because we all know they do..... of course this is no indication that your badge is bad, just a note that they sell both good and crap...and sell it all as RARE und EINMALIG..... now, i have to bite my tounge, otheriwse i will be booted for sure :)

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Yep, I saw it yesterday.
After having read your comments I went also on a quest to find out if this badge is really this rare?
And I came also out on this webpage "sale by HH " where I saw this similar badge.:huh:

But in regards to feelings, you're wrong.:h
I am trying to put a collection together with authentic, original pieces with yes, here and there, some copy's of paper items where I believe some documentation is needed to show this item in actual wear (paperitems do sell for a lott of money and I have no intention to pay these fenomenal amounts).
So should it be in fact a bogus, than I will feel bad, off course.:angry:
wizardelf
:belgium
 
wizardelf said:
Y

But in regards to feelings, you're wrong.
Click to expand...
In a few months i believe, i can show you my feelings on paper..... and then we shall resume the discussion., and then maybe you will see where i am coming from.
My "feelings" are not just feelings, but more than that :) keep the badge to one side, and we will talk about it later.
In my book, the transition from "beginning" markings in late 1933 through to early 1935 are covered in extreme detail .. but i dont stop there, the first MA/ M1/ and M9/ markings are also covered in-depth ... as well as covering the year 1938 !!! (especially pertaining to German makers like your badge is supposed to be by)

But before we can discuss anything, Better images are needed, CLEAR, close-ups of the M- part of the badge... like 1200 x 1200 ... because i have two sides of discussion for this badge, on one side i can think of reasons why it could be Real, and even Rare, but right now, i will say fake... sorry. Better images, as well as time, will solve the issue.
 
I guess you misinterpretated what I meant with "feelings"
when you state and I quote you here;
Its not an "unknown badge" ... and like i said in post 1 by me, i dont know the badge personally, but i have a bad feeling...... which does not mean you should have.... it does not matter really....
Meinungen sind erlaubt :) oder ? .... doch

Off course I would feel bad if it should turn out to be a bogus item, that's what I wanted to say.

I'm in no condition, since on badges, I'm certainly not experienced, to say that I'm convinced it is real.
I just went on the assumption that it was in fact a real one, but if somebody comes along and proofs me otherwise I will be not happy to say the least,
(I'm not shooting here on the messenger but rather on the guy who sold it to me!!!!)
for I did gave up some good well earned money for it.

So in the meantime I'll see if I can find somebody with a real good camera to capture that well detailed picture of it.
So hopefully there is no longer this miscommunication now between us left.

Thx
Wizardelf
 
Better images are Always a help......

This is not directed at you now, but WHY do so many collectors, pay SO MUCH money for collections, yet cannot invest 150 USD in a good camera???????

You will see this all over the world.. even with $10,000 items, not-clear images????? It is so easy, even with a small cheap camera..... and could certainly clear up many problems straight away, with no need for "what one person (like me) thinks...... Pictures speak 1000 words... they really do....... and with a good picture, sometimes that alone is enough to settle any "debate" before it even starts!!!!!!

I hope it turns out Rare and Good for you... but still i would be interested to see great images when you have the time !!!
(and of course, nichts für ungut :)
 
Ostmark Landdienst der HJ 1938 M9/249

I have also such a HJ-badge - and on the backside it is stamped M9 and underneath 249 (Josef Mayer, Linz) Here is a badge that recently sold that I will consider it as original. I think that maybe your badge have the same no.'s ???

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Hi Wizardelf and Jo Rivett ( and all other forum members :001_smile: )

I think that this post ended without any conclusion, other that "better pics needed", so I have taken some pics of MY badge. I.m.o. the pics is sharp enough to make a conclusion.

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JO - what is your opinion now, when you can see the maker-stamp clear ?
WIZARDELF - is this the same maker as yours, when you look really close on your badge ?

I still cannot se why this badge should be bad :good:

Michael :denmark
 

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Michael, i really like it! The rather "salop" markings also fit in perfectly to this period of 1938 with an Austrian maker (in Linz M9/249)
Good images, and IMHO a good item!
 
Jo Rivett said:
Michael, i really like it! The rather "salop" markings also fit in perfectly to this period of 1938 with an Austrian maker (in Linz M9/249)
Good images, and IMHO a good item!
Click to expand...

Michael,

Yep, the same markings.
Thx for sharing

Wizardelf
:belgium
 
Thanks for your cooperation Guys - now I think that we have finished this post the right way, and with some info that can be used by others. :yo:

Michael :denmark
 
Hi.

I also got this badge that shows M9 249. Pretty hard to read the "9" on backside.
 
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