See also the HJ-Wiki page here: printed armband which includes updated and expanded information.
Most of the Articles in this section have been clicked/viewed only by a few people, with sparse, if any comments. I guess this substantiates the claim that i have always made, that "collectors" today don't care about solid Information and don't place much importance on research, but would rather tag along with what their Forum-idols post, never forming an opinion of their own. Its for this reason that i believe this post/article, needs to be here, available to those few who are really interested in the facts, and who dont just forum hop stealing bits and bobs here and there.
On the many forum threads out there, the main point has been focused on the RZM rules pertaining to printed armbands, with people quoting from books like Angolia etc pointing towards various RZM mentions. Even on this thread here on the HJ forum, the RZM period seemed to be the main focus, with dates pointing towards 1936, then later 1934.. and the debate has always seemed to somehow not only include these dates, but also focus manly on them with regards the question... did they exist.
I have spent a while hunting around the net, and reading all the posts, and even shedding light on the thread here about the actual RZM rules, and when they actually date from. The photo that heads that thread, and a few others, as much as we would like to believe what we are seeing is a Printed armband, it is unfortunately not proof at all, and will be interpreted in different ways by people who view this subject differently others.
Certain peoples reactions to certain topics, will at times seem like Bullying (i refer to the Bob Coleman responses to members on WAF and GMIC threads, here, here and here.) maybe they just get sick and tired of repeating the same conversations over and over, or have other agendas, in any case nothing is to gain by such debates as they are usually one sided, or at best fueled by the opinions of a few others with no facts at all.
Sometimes, i guess, i could be accused of the same to a certain extent. The reason behind this though is different. I have always gone out of my way to help, and am known to spend ages helping someone out with info and answering their questions well knowing that they are possibly not interested in my website, or will buy any item. Thats just me and the passion i have for the hobby i guess. In any case, 8 months ago i already uploaded solid proof that printed armbands were made, and available for sale on this thread. Either noone really took the time to search for anything there, or did not use the information correctly, in any case, it has been in plain view for members for a long time.
It proves that at least one maker, Richter, offered Printed armbands around 1933 (latest b/w proof so far)
It also proves that they were tolerated, as the Standard/Regulatory armbands were also mentioned below, and cost more.
What were they used for? that's anyone's guess. Where they allowed to worn by HJ / NSDAP members ? well the RZM rules state clearly no, dating back to 1932. The RZM rules were very lax in the beginning though, as the follow chart i have compiled from June 1934-June 1935 show. A clear increase in makers loosing their RZM license can be observed as the new RZM system was introduced.
The Problem.
So as much as this article answers the question, it leaves the door wide open for Automatic-Authentication on the basis that its now factually been proved that Printed armbands were made, and available alongside Regulatory ones. Thank GOD i don't collect armbands or cloth.
Most of the Articles in this section have been clicked/viewed only by a few people, with sparse, if any comments. I guess this substantiates the claim that i have always made, that "collectors" today don't care about solid Information and don't place much importance on research, but would rather tag along with what their Forum-idols post, never forming an opinion of their own. Its for this reason that i believe this post/article, needs to be here, available to those few who are really interested in the facts, and who dont just forum hop stealing bits and bobs here and there.
Did printed armbands exist ?
On the many forum threads out there, the main point has been focused on the RZM rules pertaining to printed armbands, with people quoting from books like Angolia etc pointing towards various RZM mentions. Even on this thread here on the HJ forum, the RZM period seemed to be the main focus, with dates pointing towards 1936, then later 1934.. and the debate has always seemed to somehow not only include these dates, but also focus manly on them with regards the question... did they exist.
I have spent a while hunting around the net, and reading all the posts, and even shedding light on the thread here about the actual RZM rules, and when they actually date from. The photo that heads that thread, and a few others, as much as we would like to believe what we are seeing is a Printed armband, it is unfortunately not proof at all, and will be interpreted in different ways by people who view this subject differently others.
Certain peoples reactions to certain topics, will at times seem like Bullying (i refer to the Bob Coleman responses to members on WAF and GMIC threads, here, here and here.) maybe they just get sick and tired of repeating the same conversations over and over, or have other agendas, in any case nothing is to gain by such debates as they are usually one sided, or at best fueled by the opinions of a few others with no facts at all.
Sometimes, i guess, i could be accused of the same to a certain extent. The reason behind this though is different. I have always gone out of my way to help, and am known to spend ages helping someone out with info and answering their questions well knowing that they are possibly not interested in my website, or will buy any item. Thats just me and the passion i have for the hobby i guess. In any case, 8 months ago i already uploaded solid proof that printed armbands were made, and available for sale on this thread. Either noone really took the time to search for anything there, or did not use the information correctly, in any case, it has been in plain view for members for a long time.
Did printed armbands exist ... the Proof
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On page 16 of the Bernhard Richter catalog, you find a small picture of an Armband above right corner. Underneath you find the descriptions, materials and prices. № 146N - Describing the Leichte ausführung Indanthen Gedruckt, gesäumt, ungefuttert 13 pfennig p/stück. (Basic issue/light issue/issue of lesser quality etc.. Printed, edges folded over and stitched and without any padding/innards/guts etc..13 pfennig per piece) below that, you will read the Vorschriftsmäßige Ausführungen for every other one.. (The required/Standard ones - ie: multi-piece designs) that cost up to double the price, between 20-25 pfennig. That catalog is from around 1933, but shows mainly items from the 1928-1932 period, with only a few new 1933 items added, all prices are still in Mark, and it is more than clear the the catalog is just a brief updated version of old stock coupled with a few new bits issued around 1933. So what does it prove?
It proves that at least one maker, Richter, offered Printed armbands around 1933 (latest b/w proof so far)
It also proves that they were tolerated, as the Standard/Regulatory armbands were also mentioned below, and cost more.
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What were they used for? that's anyone's guess. Where they allowed to worn by HJ / NSDAP members ? well the RZM rules state clearly no, dating back to 1932. The RZM rules were very lax in the beginning though, as the follow chart i have compiled from June 1934-June 1935 show. A clear increase in makers loosing their RZM license can be observed as the new RZM system was introduced.
The Problem.
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Is that even today, Printed armbands of every type are offered for sale by Repro makers, and always have been. Some have RZM tags, RZM stamps, NSDAP round stamps.. Wehrmacht unit stamps.... etc Lots also show no stamps whatsoever. Now, you have read the word Indanthen-Gedruckt, and Indanthren Gefärbt, that is, or was a early chemical way of treating/staining cloth to create colors and patters that would not fade, or run.... (ie: on curtains etc) that is still used today in the screen printing industry. Up until 2005, i was a screen-printer, so the following is not off the top of my head, but fact. How would you test a piece to be sure if it was printed in 1933 or printed in 2011 ? you cant, it is just not possible, unless some plonker has used the wrong base material or Marabu-colors etc.. otherwise, its not possible to say what is old, and what is new.So as much as this article answers the question, it leaves the door wide open for Automatic-Authentication on the basis that its now factually been proved that Printed armbands were made, and available alongside Regulatory ones. Thank GOD i don't collect armbands or cloth.
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